Atheists will burn at the 2nd Coming
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Miscella — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 04:54 PM)
Not people who think differently from me, but people who oppose and openly mock God will be punished.
I don't think it's so much a punishment as it is a natural consequence of the rejection. After all, if God is love and you choose to be without it, you only have yourself to blame. -
graham-167 — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 05:20 PM)
I don't think it's so much a punishment as it is a natural consequence of the rejection.
If god created the system and designed it to have the natural consequences that it does, what's the difference between that and punishment?
I mean, if I create a machine that spanks a child every time it says "yellow", can I then say "Hey, I'm not to blame here. It's just the machine doing what it does!"
If I could stop a rapist from raping a child I would. That's the difference between me and god. -
Miscella — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 05:34 PM)
If god created the system and designed it to have the natural consequences that it does, what's the difference between that and punishment?
In that sense, not much, I suppose. Note that I didn't say it wasn't a punishment; I said it was less of a punishment and more of a consequence. If you build a fire to keep me warm and I put my hand in it knowing it will burn me, would you say you were punishing me for choosing to burn myself?
I mean, if I create a machine that spanks a child every time it says "yellow", can I then say "Hey, I'm not to blame here. It's just the machine doing what it does!"
According the Bible anyway, God does indeed take responsibility for the existence of the machine, but not for one's decision to say "yellow" while knowing full well what the consequences are, be they automatic or otherwise. And this doesn't even address the whole forgiveness thing -
Isapop — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 06:38 PM)
If you build a fire to keep me warm and I put my hand in it knowing it will burn me, would you say you were punishing me for choosing to burn myself?
Yes, if he is the one who commands fire to burn anyone putting their hand in it. -
Miscella — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 06:43 PM)
But he isn't the one commanding anyone to put their hand in the fire. If anything, he's the one commanding them
not
to, while at the same time, not forcing them either way. You can put your hand the fire if you want to, nobody is stopping you -
Isapop — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 07:07 PM)
Which brings us right back to the start.
"The start" being graham's irrefutable point that If god created the system and designed it to have the natural consequences that it does, then there is no difference between that and punishment. -
Isapop — 9 years ago(December 29, 2016 02:16 AM)
If there's no difference between punishment and consequence, it shouldn't matter what we call it. But somehow, apparently it does
"Natural consequence" (and similar terms) is the term used by those who like to assert that God isn't doing the punishing.