Sympathy for a mass murderer???!!!
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Capote
imbluzclooby — 17 years ago(September 22, 2008 11:09 PM)
Let's face it, people. This movie has to be a whitewash. Do you really believe that if Truman Capote's intentions were to draw sympathy for the murderers in the 60's would spawn such a popular book? Nonsense. 1960's America was still conservative and would be completely detached from the liberal wingnuts who made this flick.
It's really a shame that a movie would hone in on the psyche of Perry Smith, a degenerate thug, and completely discard the dignity and sanctity of the victims and their relatives. I was angry and did not see any value or purpose in presenting this movie the way it portrayed Capote.
Was Hoffman's performance good? I guess. If you are a Capote aficianado, but I don't see what the fuss is all about listening to a nasal voice and annoying lisp on the slow burn delivery is all that great.
I don't know much about Capote's life, but the way they approached it through this movie and to channel the whole story on his relationship with a killer was a waste.
Sure, let's have the liberal media draw sympathy for a hardened killer, but show no regard for justice and the victims. Way to go Hollywierd! -
Strausszek — 17 years ago(January 03, 2009 09:45 PM)
Uh, the movie isn't about the Clutter murders, but about the impact of the trial and meeting the two killers on Capote. And it makes no pretense of giving a full-figure portrait of Perry and Hickock either.
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bobn425 — 16 years ago(April 23, 2009 04:15 PM)
The original film version of Capote's book is ten times better than this and gives no mercy to these brutal killers. There is no justification for what they did and no justification for portraying them like a couple of choir boys as was done in this version. In the original, the murders are shown in brutal flashback. Here only shotguns going off. The family apparently wasn't even there according to this.
Hoffman's performance is amazing, but they should have portrayed Capote's entire life with this just one of the incidents in it if they had no interest in portraying the killers for what they really were. -
AND77 — 16 years ago(May 11, 2009 07:44 AM)
I didn't leave this film with a sense that the killers were treated unfairly - by Capote or anyone.
The scene toward the end with Perry's sister telling Capote that he is a liar and monster pretty much said it all, as far as I was concerned. Also, we saw Alvin Dewey's anger at Capote for getting them an appeal lawyer. He was a friend of the murdered family, and of course didn't want to see their killers go free. This didn't stop him from being lifelong friends with Capote, however.
Yes, Capote got emotionally attached to Dick and Perry, but many killers have family and friends who love them and support them; I didn't see this as "liberal agenda" at all. Just factual. -
androphile — 16 years ago(October 17, 2009 12:51 PM)
AND77:
Also, we saw Alvin Dewey's anger at Capote for getting them an appeal lawyer. He was a friend of the murdered family, and of course didn't want to see their killers go free.
Let's just be clear on one point. There was absolutely no way Hickock and Smith were going to go free. They were both convicted on four counts of first degree murder. The best any appeal lawyer could have achieved would be to get their death sentences commuted to life in prison with no chance of parole.
"Tell you what . . . the truth is . . . sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
Jack Twist -
gary_overman — 16 years ago(December 14, 2009 03:17 AM)
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AND77: Also, we saw Alvin Dewey's anger at Capote for getting them an appeal lawyer. He was a friend of the murdered family, and of course didn't want to see their killers go free.
Let's just be clear on one point. There was absolutely no way Hickock and Smith were going to go free. They were both convicted on four counts of first degree murder.
The best any appeal lawyer could have achieved would be to get their death sentences commuted to life in prison with no chance of parole.Uhhhh.not quite. It was not until the 1990's that the Kansas legislature enacted the 'hard 40' law that mandated certain murderers serve 40 years before release, in lieu of the death penalty, and then a few years later, enacted a death penalty law that also provided for life without parole (LWOP). So it was was not until the 1990's that Kansas got a true LWOP law.
Prior to this there was no such thing as LWOP in Kansas. -
franzkabuki — 13 years ago(March 05, 2013 07:30 AM)
"The original film version of Capotes book is ten times better than this and gives no mercy to these brutal killers".
Obviously, you havent really even seen In Cold Blood because if you had, youd know that it actually spends much more time picking apart Perry, his past and motivations, as well as the dynamic between the two criminals. And doesnt seem like youve seen Capote, either, because otherwise youd know better than to talk bullsh-t like "according to this the family wasnt even there".
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan -
nightfigher13 — 16 years ago(October 13, 2009 11:00 AM)
you clearly have not read In Cold Blood. Had you read it, you would have learned that instilling sympathy is EXACTLY what most of the book is about. Capote was trying to humanize the characters. In fact, the Clutters are only in the book for maybe the first 50 pages. The book is about understanding the murders.
But you know, it's easier to blame the liberals. Readings for queers anyway
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brianwdunphy-1 — 16 years ago(January 19, 2010 11:23 PM)
Since when did murderers become non-human? I'm not justifying kiiling in any way, they get what they deserve.
I guess breaking down people in simple terms- good and evil- makes people feel better about themselves, and makes them feel like they are better than people sitting in jail.
But in my opinion, people and the human race are much more complex than simply reducing it to 'good' and 'evil'. Anybody in the right situation can be a saint, or a gas chamber attendant. Human behaviour is varied and wide. I dont see any killer as good, or evil. I see them as people who need to suffer the consquences of their choices, and that means jail time or death. They may have traits that are likeable, like all of us, and traits that are dislikeable, once again, like all of us. I think most people are afraid of the fact that if they got to actually know a killer, they might see a bit of themselves in them.
I'm not making excuses for these people I'm just being realistic. People are people and they will behave in all sorts of ways. Whether some people chose to understand it is another thing, and maybe it is easier to sweep murderers under the rug, and dismiss them as vermin. I dont know.
I left this movie, and after reading the book, I feel nothing towards the killers. I dont hate them, and I dont like them. But I do feel like I understand them. It doesnt mean I wanted them free, it just means, ok, thats the reason they did what they did. I dont see whats wrong with that.
Are you feeling stupid cause I know I am! -Homer -
jshane2002 — 15 years ago(September 11, 2010 11:48 PM)
I agreed with a lot of the points made here. Capote is a pretty good movie worth watching more than once. You see good points and not so good points in the people in both Kansas and New York.
Both Capote and Harper Lee are intelligent and sensitive, thoughtful writers but both were ambitious and knew how to manipulate people, both in small town Kansas and in NY to further their careers and get their novels made into major motion pictures.
There is an irony that is touched on by the original poster's message though. Somehow you are made to feel the betrayal that the killers went through, especially in the way Perry seemed to be so naive about Capote's intentions.
The Chris Cooper character hit it right on the nail when he asked Capote outright if "In Cold Blood" referred to the murderers or to Capote's ruthlessness in getting the real story out of Perry and profitting from it.
Part of the irony is that Perry had his sensitive side brought out and encouraged only to live through the ultimate betrayal. -
cookiela2001 — 15 years ago(September 18, 2010 05:48 PM)
I
did
turn to the person I was watching this with about halfway through and say, "You knowI don't have a whole lot of sympathy for murderers." (I actually should have clarified that as "murderers of innocent people".)
What this seems to boil down to is that Capote felt a twinship with one of these killers, as when he says, "I feel like we grew up in the same house, and I went out the front while he went out the back." Which explains part of itbut still, no matter how bad someone's childhood is or how poor they are, that doesn't make them go out and KILL random people (unless they also happen to be deranged.)
So, I found the movie kind of unconvincing and uninvolving (or is it "noninvolving"?) on that level. I think it's an interesting movie with good performancesbut not a great movieor even a
very
good movie.
(PS: There are obviously people who fall in love with known killers, but I don't think this explores that phenomenon very well.) -
KCantu — 16 years ago(January 31, 2010 10:07 PM)
I didn't realize that Capote saw Perry Smith as his gay lover, but it makes sense. I read the book about 5 years ago. According to him, Smith is this soft spoken, sweet, easily manipulated man who was taken in by the montrous Dick Hickock. Well, here is some reality. Perry Smith met Hickock in prison, so he wasn't that nice. Perry Smith put a gun to the heads of four people. A hardworking rancher, his wife, and their two children. In the city where Capote is from, this may be acceptable behavior which happens a lot. But not in a town where people felt no need to even lock their doors. Smith was a first rate piece of sh!t. Just so you know, the state of Kansas hung his #ss. They were two of the last guys executed in Kansas. There would be no reprieve. And it is sickening to think of some idiot falling in love with a murderer. The town of Holcomb is actually known only for these murders! I'm sure the towns people would gladly trade that notoriety for four of its esteemed citizens.
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mystee_reyne — 15 years ago(September 29, 2010 12:21 AM)
This movie was a very good film. But left me feeling confused at first. Confused, in that I was trying to figure out just exactly what Capote's feelings were towards Perry. And what were his true motivations. In the beginning I was disgusted at the idea that he could possibly fall in love with someone like that. But then as the movie went along, I started to see the "human" side of Perry.feeling lonely on death rowdesperate for a visit from the only person who appeared to care (Capote). And then when he admits exactly what happenned the night of the murders, I saw a change in Capote. I saw the rise of an internal conflict. I saw, what looked like guilt and a man torn. I think for some reason, Capote had believed Perry to be "innocent" in the sense that he was beguiled by Richard. But this confession by Perry (I Liked him up until the moment I slit his throat)possibly revealed to Capote (in the movie)that Perry had in fact deserved to die for his crime. So I think Capote (as portrayed in the movie) was rent from guilt. Guilt from having helped these guilty men evade their sentences for so long. And guilt from the fact that he had stopped helping Perry even though he cared for him. This movie is an excellent portrayal of just how complicated human emotions actually are. As well as how multifaceted people who are labeled good or bad could be. These men, who were clearly bad men by society's standards, were charismatic (Richard) and charming (Perry)enough to intrigue someone considered good by society's standards (Capote). And this happens more often than you think. Often times the lawyers of condemned murderers cry or become emotional when their client is finally executed. After spending so much time with them, they start to see them as flawed human beings, but human beings nonetheless.
www.take-the-walk.blogspot.com
www.thesixthcourse.blogspot.com -
Roonil_Wazlib_97 — 11 years ago(November 13, 2014 05:53 PM)
when he admits exactly what happenned the night of the murders, I saw a change in Capote. I saw the rise of an internal conflict. I saw, what looked like guilt and a man torn. I think for some reason, Capote had believed Perry to be "innocent" in the sense that he was beguiled by Richard. But this confession by Perry (I Liked him up until the moment I slit his throat)possibly revealed to Capote (in the movie)that Perry had in fact deserved to die for his crime. So I think Capote (as portrayed in the movie) was rent from guilt.
I don't see how you can claim that Capote felt at that point that maybe they deserved to die and felt guilt about his earlier feelings towards them, when just a few scenes later he was sobbing uncontrollably to see them go and wished he had done more to help them.
These men, who were clearly bad men by society's standards, were charismatic (Richard) and charming (Perry)enough to intrigue someone considered good by society's standards (Capote). And this happens more often than you think. Often times the lawyers of condemned murderers cry or become emotional when their client is finally executed. After spending so much time with them
I like the way you put that and I think you're dead on here. I just wished the movie had explored Capote's attachment to them more convincingly. -
ranc1 — 1 year ago(December 04, 2024 08:32 PM)
"After spending so much time with them, they start to see them as flawed human beings, but human beings nonetheless."
Yes.
This is the same as for narcissism and narcissistic abuse.
People who experienced it - will tend to develop rancor and hatred towards narcissists.
So much that the hatred becomes the only reason for living.
Then traumatized people stay stuck in worry and rumination, like a prison - without moving away with their lives.
Healing from trauma and living one's own life again - must include seeing the abusive people as flawed yet human.
When we hang onto the hatred and prejudice and defining abusers as monsters - we are giving them too much power. It appears as if hatred is putting them down, but the opposite effect is achieved - hatred locks us in prison of isolation and avoidance, right were abusers belong.
This is what right-wing politicians and fascists are doing - they create monsters and then energize voters in frenzy, mass hallucination of hatred, where monsters like Trump present themselves as saviors from the threat.
We may think that we are fighting evil - but we are giving it power through hate. -
james_oblivion — 10 years ago(February 27, 2016 01:54 AM)
Read a book. Preferably In Cold Blood. Might show you how utterly wrong you are about everything you're saying here. Yes, the book does humanize the killers, especially Perry. More so than this film does, even.