You Know What Pisses Me Off
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topper24hours — 9 years ago(September 26, 2016 07:04 AM)
I highly appreciate and respect this post!
I do "get it" to you, Lucifer is kinda the equivalent of a popcorn flick.
I regret lashing out at you over MY frustration.
Please understand: I wouldn't mind a different bent w/ Lucifer, and sex bothers me not at all!!
It's his "caring" so much about petty earthly squabbles and the cheesy dialogue that killed it for me. oh, and the "need" to spin it into a procedural cop drama. I find that insulting!
Here is my issue at it's heart and why I found myself so aggressively irritated with you and other staunch supporters:
I absolutely LOVE the character Lucifer!
I used to chat with Mike Carey on the old Vertigo message boards, as it was being written. (what a rush!! he'd drop hints like mad).
Like w/ Constantine- when a poor adaptation is made; if it is NOT met with acclaim, you may see a much better version in time.
So.. when this came out and was NOT a good adaptation (though I understand, on its own- you like it: I'm trying to stay away from insults), I hoped everyone would hate it and I'd see the REAL Lucifer in a few years!!!
As it stands, because rakish buddy cop Lucifer is "good enough"; I will likely NEVER see the version of Lucifer I desire to see.
And THAT is the source of my angst!!!
I guess I just wish so much you all could experience the character as I have. one of the deepest, most interesting, multilayered antiheros of all time.
I'm at issue 9 of the new continuation of the story- which begins with him teaming up with Raphael, the cast down angel, to find God's murderer.
Yup. God's dead! Issue #1. It's VERY exciting and I'm trying to just find comfort in that.
Apologies again for making you the brunt of my personal "vendetta" against this show, lol.
Cheers. -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 26, 2016 07:58 AM)
I think you're wrong. I think the popularity of this character and the fact the show didn't get pushed off tv despite all the protests, shows that interest in the character is growing. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if we don't get more Lucifer rather than less.
The Devil's an archetype and Gaiman/Carey's version of a different Lucifer is iconic, and because of that, there will be many adaptations of his story (just like vampires) based on this new version of the devil. Once an idea is accepted into the mainstream it becomes more prevalent. That's why the fundamentalists are freaking out. They think it will make people sympathize with evil even though that was never the intention with this character. But the floodgates have been opened with this show and I'd bet money that you will be seeing more sympathetic devil characters on your screen from here on out. It's a very compelling notion, that the devil is misunderstood, or that his image has been bastardized and that he has been villified for every evil in the book, when all that really happened was he had a disagreement with his father about free will.
It's easy to see why Satan worship sprang up because of the distorted version of the devil that was preached to people. If people had just been more true to the Satan(s) described in the bible instead of creating this demon monster, I doubt Satanism would have ever been born. But that's what happens when extremism occurs. The other extreme is created as well.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. Vincent Van Gogh -
kurt-2000 — 9 years ago(September 26, 2016 09:09 AM)
I think the popularity of this character and the fact the show didn't get pushed off tv despite all the protests, shows that interest in the character is growing. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if we don't get more Lucifer rather than less.
lol
Yahoo.com weighs in:
"The most obnoxious show of the new year thus far, Lucifer traduces the character created by Neil Gaiman and developed by writer Mike Carey in the Lucifer comic-book series. The drama, premiering Monday on Fox, turns him into a smug twerp who delights in humiliating many perfectly nice, ordinary people as well as the bad guys he catches as an aide to a cop.
The opening scene, traditionally designed to introduce us to the main character and the tone of the show, does its job well. Lucifer Morningstar, played by Tom Ellis complete with fashionable stubble and snooty British accent, is a fallen angel tooling around Los Angeles in sporty car. He gets pulled over for speeding and we get a taste of Lucifers special power: he can get people to reveal their forbidden desires. In this case, he manipulates an honest cop just doing his job to look as though hes a dope whos eager to take a bribe from our supposed hero. Yeah, that really makes me really want to root for this guy as our protagonist.
Things get immediately worse. Lucifer teams up with a cop played by Lauren German to solve a murder because I dont know, I guess Lucifer has nothing better to do than try and fit into the mold of Foxs quirky-crime-solvers-paired-together shows (Bones, Sleepy Hollow, Lie To Me, Fringe, etc.). Germans Det. Chloe Decker has her own unique (non-)power: shes immune to Lucifers truth-eliciting powers.
Throughout, the dialogue is studded with lines that are variations on things youve heard and read in hundreds of devil-or-angel-on-Earth TV shows, movies, and books. Lucifer actually says, The devil made you do it. And when a priest crosses himself, Lucifer says sarcastically, Yeah, good luck with that, Father, and while youre at it, say Hi for me.
D.B. Woodside appears a couple of times as a fellow-devil who has to talk in a low, menacing voice at all times. Ill bet he, like the rest of us, didnt have to hang around listening to this devilish bore." -
topper24hours — 9 years ago(September 26, 2016 10:49 AM)
While I appreciate the encouraging words
Lol, I don't want "another" Lucifer character damnit!!
I want the EXACT one I fell in love with. brought to the small screen.
So far- the most "pure" adaptation of a comic I've ever seen was Sin City.
Holy crap! If I saw a Lucifer movie/show that true to roots, I'd nerdgasm.
I guess the best I can hope for is that this has another decent season then begins to wane- but having made enough of a stir that it is looked at hard in making a true adaptation.
As far as D.C. goes; I think their "kiddie" shoes are crap (flash, arrow, etc.), but when they get "gritty", they are AMAZE (Gotham, Constantine).
I want to see a dark version of Lucifer. -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 26, 2016 11:39 AM)
But my point is, the first screen depiction of Frankenstein's monster has adapted over time as the character captured audience's imagination. Dracula has changed as well. For better and worse depending on the depiction.
And the same will happen with Lucifer. Until eventually, you'll probably see some version close to your idea of perfection.
Although, the critics didn't agree with your assessment of the ones you think were done well. Constantine was not well received, and Gotham has mixed reviews at best. I watched the first season of Gotham and it just got way too repetitive and boring for me, although the visuals are great. But it's too one note, too action based, imo. Others love it, I'm sure. Also, Gotham is a new concept, not based on one single comic, so it's not exactly a fair comparison. I didn't watch Constantine. Wish I had but I'm not going to set myself up for disappointment now that it was cancelled.
I'm a huge fan of the Lucifer and Sandman comics, and I'm a huge fan of the show. I'd like to see that version, too, although realistically, a carbon copy is never going to happen. That's not creative or fun and anybody who would agree to do such a thing wouldn't have a creative bone in their body. So if it's going to be done by someone talented, then it's going to have at least some differences. You just have to stop getting hung up on the superficial.
Even Mike Carey applauded the evolution of the Lucifer character. He said he appreciated Neil's support of the new direction he took Lucifer when he took over the reins, and he's now just as supportive of both Holly Black and the show's writers. He talked about how that's the nature of the genre, that it evolves depending on who's creating it. And Neil has made it more than clear that he's a fan of the show. It's not "a story", it's the truth.
Too bad you can't see what Lucifer's own creators see. But that's okay. I just don't understand why you waste your time trying to tell us not to like what we like.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. Vincent Van Gogh -
kurt-2000 — 9 years ago(September 26, 2016 12:00 PM)
I'm a huge fan of the Lucifer and Sandman comics, and I'm a huge fan of the show.
We hadn't noticed
Most of the support threads on the board were started by you. Guess you're on Satan's payroll?
Too bad you can't see what Lucifer's own creators see.
Dollar signs from cheap thrills?
I just don't understand why you waste your time trying to tell us not to like what we like.
I'm the same way when I see people pollute the streets with garbage, pollute the rivers and pollute minds. Force of habit I guess. -
crusojalewhistef — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 07:51 PM)
I think I can actually kinda relate. It's basically like how I don't like anyone covering the song Time After Time. To me that song is iconic but I ignore the covers because I know that's just how I see it and I wouldn't want anyone bashing a cover that I actually like.
I'm sure people said the same thing about Dean Cain in New Adventures of Superman. He's too watered down cheesy etc But to me he was THE Superman. When you become used to a certain version that is what you want to see so I didn't care if anyone else saw it that way though at the same time it does get old after a while when people bash on my favs (TV shows musical artists etc). It'd be one thing if it was something I enjoyed that I know doesn't really have substance (i.e. if we were talking about Scream Queens I would see your point. This is miles away from Scream Queens to me) There are going to be so many adaptations of popular comic books or mythological figures.
At least you were pretty respectful. I went through far worse a few years ago on a board and of course this is towards an actual human being but I guess since he was a "celebrity" it was okay to bash him like that. Theater snobs are far worse than comic book stans.
If you want the one that you fell in love with, maybe you can send in a screenplay to some TV execs or if that's too big you can always make a YouTube video. I know it would be a difficult task to complete esp if you're aiming for popularity but whenever I feel like something is missing/not right from a TV show I will write a fanfic or make a video montage.
I try to live without regret but I'm about to break a sweat. -
kurt-2000 — 9 years ago(September 25, 2016 11:50 AM)
with specific criticism
Do I really need to post more YouTube links with clips from this series, Barb?
Tom Ellis plays a flakey devil who makes lame jokes, acts like a ladies man, and pretends to have morals under a tough exterior. It's so crappy, I'm sure someone at the production company found a rejected story outline sitting in a dusty box stating, 'ABC Entertainment Pilot: 1979 Season'
They went with 'Supertrain' instead. -
jncarriere — 9 years ago(September 24, 2016 09:05 PM)
I can sum up what he's trying to say in one word "Integrity" and without being rude. I'm not defending him,but he does have a valid point in the "comic" sense.. This is basically just another (in a long line of)original comic book characters that are getting butchered.
They killed The Black Canary on Arrow for a bunch of freaking shippers. I digress, in a hardcore comic book fans eyes. The absolute worse thing you can do, is make a mockery of a comic character as HUGE as Lucifer or Batman or Superman or Green Lantern or The Flash. I hated the last X Men and I hated what they have done to Arrow.
Van Helsing is a graphic novel and I had really high hopes.First episode not so good,second episode a little better. It's like all the show runners,creative teams want to cash in on comic characters,but they wont stick close enough to the source material and or go completely in another direction.So I made a decision, to see the characters as two completely different renditions. I love this version of Lucifer and Tom Ellis is killing it.
Allan Moore is one of THE most famous comic writers. Constantine is an amazing character and I watched the show,but it was hit and miss. I still haven't watched Suicide Squad, in fear that they butchered Harley Quinn(Paul Dini) "Joker's Favor" (absolute favorite) and Deadshot.
Non comic book readers and casual comic fans will be satisfied,but the hardcore comic fans will chew them up and spit them out,much like Allan Moore who hates Hollywood. That is all I will say about comic book fans and Lucifer as a character within the comic verse.
imperfection is an altogether attainable human goal, and love is acceptance of imperfections. -
topper24hours — 9 years ago(September 25, 2016 06:07 AM)
I agree with most of your post.
Except; for example Constantine the movie would have been ok w/ a different name. As "Mr. Magic", it could have been fun it was only as an adaptation that it fell short.
However; Lucifer is a steamy pile of dog feces, even if it did NOT drag a magnificent character through the muck.
It is unimaginative as the people watching it!
iZombie, while being 10x the show Lucifer is.. is another example of the "dumbed down" route.
I guess the majority of tv viewers can ONLY watch a "new concept" show if it's wrapped in a cheesy "buddy cop" wrapper.
I don't understand why
There was NO reason to make the king of hell (former), who couldn't care any less about the affairs of man, a character with the most predictable lines, actions/reactions, etc. He was essentially neutered.
There is NO mystery or intrigue and that is who he is.
Sooooooo..