I am happy the Mace called them out
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Marvel/DC
Hiragana_Kanji — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 04:31 PM)
I have been wanting him to call them out for a while, but yet I think he still went too easy on them. Next Mace get Daisy out of all the trouble she has been in, while being a terrorist. And the first thing that Phil tries to do is undermine that, and saying he want her to the lead the team. Good heavens.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -
Natalia-Alianovna-Romanoff — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 04:37 PM)
Also wasn't it Phil's idea to put Mace in charge? I love the guy, but I am not sure why he thinks it's necessary for the world to think he's been dead since before the battle of New York.
#DontBlameMeIVotedForBernie -
DoTheMath — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 06:12 PM)
Phil's idea was to have a "powered" person in charge. Mace wasn't his choice. Mace was picked by POTUS (Phil wanted Steve Rogers but steve went rogue).
His death in the Avengers (supposedly) had nothing to do with it.
They explained that Phil had to step down because he ran an illegal spy organization (using powered individuals) without authorization and that there was "no way in hell" POTUS was going to let him be the face of the organization.
RIP 616
#TimeForMoreAmadore -
haxemon — 9 years ago(December 09, 2016 02:08 PM)
he thinks it's necessary for the world to think he's been dead since before the battle of New York.
What makes you think that? There is absolutely zero indication on AoS that Phil is pretending to be dead or hiding (other than when SHIELD itself was hiding or he was on the run from Talbot etc.)- The world didn't know who he was at the time of Avengers. So nobody would know he was dead or alive or a pumpkin. (Of course it's possible in-world that Fury used Phil's "death" in CNN stories etc. to help make SHIELD look good.)
- Phil has been walking around introducing himself to just about anyone since 2013 when AoS debuted. Yes it was a shock to viewers when he was alive in episode 1. Yes some clearance levels within SHIELD had been told he died, while others had also been told he was alive "again". Keep in mind that other clearance levels might not have been told he was dead in the first place. Ward sure makes it seem like privileged information.
- I think the proliferation of trolls/misguided people on these boards with their "TV and film are separate" babble are confusing the issue. It's all one universe. Phil is "alive" in it. It's not a secret (there's no way they could keep it from the Avengers - especially after CA:TWS).
- The only open question really is when did the Avengers find out, who told them and how did they react etc. Marvel mad a misstep a bit IMO when they didn't find a way to get that taken care of near the beginning. Not only would it have laid to rest all this nonsense about TV vs. films but it would have been nice publicity for AoS if they had whipped up a post-credit scene or something in TWS to show that he's still alive. But I think they've waited too long now so it's just getting tougher to include him in a film so far in advance of the TV scripts being written.
Reading my signature constitutes admission that I am correct. (Too late)
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eponine_t — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 04:39 PM)
In fairness, he's not really all that good at this "directoring" yet. He allowed one of his agents to be black bagged and taken somewhere without being tracked or any assurance of her safety because he was being blackmailed. For that reason alone the team has good reason to not trust his judgement.
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Hiragana_Kanji — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 04:57 PM)
Phil wanted a person in charge, he needs to stop acting like he is in charge. He didn't tell everyone what was going on him he was in charge he needs to learn that he does not have super clearance for everything.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -
caseyrook — 9 years ago(December 08, 2016 09:39 AM)
I'm pretty sure that he learned that lesson the second he was reminded that he can't be 'Objective' when it comes to Daisy or May and told "It's Classified."
And I personally don't think he's trying to be in charge of all of SHIELD. In Season One he had control over his team, and I think that's all he cares about leading in the first place.
I also think that he is calling Mace out when he knows (and it's obvious) that Mace is in over his head.
However, yeah, it's also obvious that Coulson is being a sneaky and distrustful SHIELD agent who does what he wants (but he's being a sneaky and distrustful SHIELD agent with good intentions).
I like Coulson. He's my favorite character. However I will concede that he does deserve some time in Barrow, Alaska guarding Blonsky's cryocell.
But not everyone can be perfect (remember he was an a**hole in 'Thor'). -
Norrin_Radd_Of_Zenn_La — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 05:05 PM)
Next Mace get Daisy out of all the trouble she has been in, while being a terrorist. And the first thing that Phil tries to do is undermine that, and saying he want her to the lead the team.
Why don't Daisy and Phil just wear the facial disguises? It is not like everyone really knows what they look like any way.
Especially when it comes to the use of Quake's powers. Who is to say that there isn't another Inhuman that doesn't have similar powers to Daisy?
I mean for Spies they sure are pretty inept.
I approve this message! -
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Norrin_Radd_Of_Zenn_La — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 06:08 PM)
They don't seem to have the tech. Why makes no sense but that's the case.
Maybe a call into black Widow?
I'm sure she would help them out. I mean Fury did seem to borrow Fitz's lightsaber to get out of a jam.
I approve this message! -
JDLail — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 06:31 PM)
Maybe a call into black Widow?
I'm sure she would help them out. I mean Fury did seem to borrow Fitz's lightsaber to get out of a jam.
That mask from TWS is long gone. Actually what they need is one the scientists who designed it or copies of his research. Ward was able to find one of those guys when he needed one for Agent 33 so it shouldn't be that damn hard. -
Norrin_Radd_Of_Zenn_La — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 07:39 PM)
Wow, I didn't mean that Natasha would give Daisy or Phil the mask that she was using! Just that BW probably had access to where they could get more.
Now that I think about it was Daisy really trying to hide when she was on the run? Why couldn't Phil find her then and why does the general public know who she is now?
I approve this message! -
JDLail — 9 years ago(December 08, 2016 12:42 AM)
Wow, I didn't mean that Natasha would give Daisy or Phil the mask that she was using! Just that BW probably had access to where they could get more.
Well she certainly did at one time. The problem is that this was very obviously new tech and new tech in Shield went an odd route. Fury had a habit of keeping stuff to himself for a while. If this was one of those things then the number of people who knew about it might be pretty small, making current day acquisition difficult. If this was Fury's personal nano mask then BW is up the creek as far as getting another one.
But if you assume that this not tech Fury was sitting on we have to deal with the fact that the SHIELD that existed then is gone. Almost all the pre TWS Hydra undercover-at-Shield personnel are either dead, in prison, or on the run. If the guy or gal you need is one of those you may have a problem. Those that were not proven to be Hydra have either moved on or got killed in the insurrection. So it wouldn't be easy. As for existing mask material its a safe bet that Hydra either grabbed or destroyed it all.
In any case they do not seem to have pursued the tech at all which is very odd. The things I brought up are serious impediments but are probably not absolute roadblocks unless the decision was made that this was either a bad thing for the show or if used a lot would make the LMD story less impactful.
Now that I think about it was Daisy really trying to hide when she was on the run? Why couldn't Phil find her then and why does the general public know who she is now?
Shield is too small for what you are proposing. If they released her picture, name, and prints to law enforcement then maybe. She was staying off the grid, wore disguises and was constantly on the move. Not an easy solve without local help.
As for why the general public knows who she is now that was Mace pinning her butt to the floor. Her anonymity is gone so no more Inhuman SJW jaunts for Miss Daisy ! -
DoTheMath — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 08:32 PM)
That mask from TWS is long gone. Actually what they need is one the scientists who designed it or copies of his research. Ward was able to find one of those guys when he needed one for Agent 33 so it shouldn't be that damn hard.
Minor correction: Ward didn't find a guy to make 33 a mask, he found/kidnapped/killed him to repair the one that fused to her face.
Supposition:
BW was SHIELD, Bakshi was Hydra and 33 was a SHIELD agent, brainwashed by Hydra.
Hydra/SHIELD. two sides of the same coin for over 70 years. Tech was most likely the same; however, Bakshi's version was a bit newer so may have been improved.
They don't seem to have the tech. Why makes no sense but that's the case.
You're right; it doesn't make sense. One would think that those masks would be in Fury's toolbox (wherever it is now) and/or Fitz would be able to make one if asked.
RIP 616
#TimeForMoreAmadore -
michaetolandl2001 — 9 years ago(December 08, 2016 04:45 PM)
She was never a terrorist. She was what the people thought was a terrorist. In the Season 4 premiere you hear that Daisy did everything she did was to stop the actual terrorist paramilitary organization the Watchdogs Whos leader was also a member of SHIELD.
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katkitkat — 9 years ago(December 09, 2016 08:53 AM)
I like Mace but just because he hasn't turned out to be pure evil, doesn't mean the team are wrong having their reservations about him.
The first thing he did upon becoming the director was split them up, knowing that they were close. I totally understand why he did that, but i also get why the team would dislike him.
He put a shoot to kill order out on Daisy, which again i can see it from both viewpoints.
He then let Simmons essentially be kidnapped because he was being blackmailed by Nadeer (but he runs a spy organization? Surely he could have sent agents in to deal with the evidence she had) then lied to the team about contacting her.
On top of all that, he's clearly lying about his 'heroic' past which of course would cause his employees to be distrustful of things he says/does.
So yeah i don't believe either side is right or wrong necessarily and i think the narrative has done well to make sure we see that.