A couple of things I didn't understand
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Film and Television Discussion
Sakusen — 17 years ago(January 31, 2009 08:49 AM)
Ok, so Noroi is one of the best (if not the best) horror movie I have ever seen. However there was a couple of things I didn't understand. I hope someone here would like to answer my questions.
- Why did everyone who lived near Junko Ishi commit suicide? The women and her daughter in the beginning. And everyone who hang themselves in the park.
- Where did the pidgeons fit in? What were they used for and why did they behave so weird when one of the girls went into trance?
- What did those weird knots and drawn patterns symbolize?
- What happend to Mariko near the end? When she went into trance and then ran into the forest screaming?
- Did the camera man survive everything?
- What did Hiro exactly mean by the ectoplastic worms?
Thanks guys!
I would so love to discuss the plot in this movie!
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Gambit1138 — 17 years ago(February 01, 2009 09:09 AM)
- Where did the pidgeons fit in? What were they used for and why did they behave so weird when one of the girls went into trance?
It is thought that pigeons are an omen of death in the film. - What happend to Mariko near the end? When she went into trance and then ran into the forest screaming?
Unknown, but I think it has something to do with Kana reappearing near the abandoned shrine. - Did the camera man survive everything?
It's left up to interpretation, but it is thought he survived (they didn't find his body and his signature was on the package containing the last tape).
- Where did the pidgeons fit in? What were they used for and why did they behave so weird when one of the girls went into trance?
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Gambit1138 — 17 years ago(February 01, 2009 05:52 PM)
Yeah. A lot of them are to be left up to interpretation, I think. It's such a good film
Did you notice the thing Mr. Hori crawled into after Kobayashi shows him the video of him meeting Junko Ishii for the second time? -
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n107 — 17 years ago(February 03, 2009 02:57 PM)
"5. Did the camera man survive everything?
It's left up to interpretation, but it is thought he survived (they didn't find his body and his signature was on the package containing the last tape)."
I think he was talking about Kobayashi's cameraman, not Kobayashi himself. And they never did mention what happened to the cameraman. I guess it's possible he survived. They probably would have mentioned that he died as well since it would fit in with the whole curse. -
Mandais — 17 years ago(February 07, 2009 11:38 AM)
Most of this is just speculation, but:
- I think that, since Kagutaba was with her the whole time, she may have been carrying the curse with her and it was "infecting" the people around her, causing them to eventually snap.
- Like someone said before, they acted as a death omen. It seems like the curse was more powerful at certain points, almost like a spike in the power, causing the person affected by the curse to go into a trance and possibly drawing the pigeons closer to the person at that time since the pigeons seem to be attracted to the curse.
- The knots I'm not sure about, but the pattern could be Kagutaba's symbol, considering it was carved into the base of the shrine. Maybe it is even used to summon the demon.
- She obviously felt the same thing Hori was feeling in the woods. Kana was seen in the woods covered in the fetuses that we later learn she was forced to eat(yum!). I'm don't know why he saw this then (possibly this was when Junko was actually summoning Kagutaba).
- I don't think he did. Everyone else involved died so I see no reason why he would survive the curse.
- Ectoplasm is left behind by spirits, so he is probably talking about becoming possessed when he says they were eaten by the worms.
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daydreamer021979 — 13 years ago(April 29, 2012 08:08 PM)
"3. The knots I'm not sure about, but the pattern could be Kagutaba's symbol, considering it was carved into the base of the shrine. Maybe it is even used to summon the demon. "
I read a lot of tvtropes and I'd say they represent the Kagutaba creature itself. The creature seems to me to be something you'd call an Eldritch Abomination with traits of Alien Geometries, Humanoid Abomination, You Cannot Grasp The True Form and Go Mad From The Revelation. Looking those up on tvtropes will explain it better than I can, but I can try.
The loops represent how the Kagutaba looks and moves. I'd say its true form is incomprehensible to the human mind. Perhaps it is a 4th or more dimensional being. We can't see all of it at once. The loops and the drawings of the circles with the lines connecting them are what the people who saw it drew to try and express what it was they saw as far as they could understand it and of course they went mad from seeing it and were killed or killed themselves.
I Am Who I Am.
You're approval isn't required. -
Clemicus — 16 years ago(July 23, 2009 04:58 PM)
- Did the camera man survive everything?
In theory, no; the curse was like ripples in water, effecting everything around it, Kobayashi was effected, so therefore the camera man, should also of been effected.
There were two camera's, so which one did Kobayashi, post?
- Did the camera man survive everything?
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himani-1 — 16 years ago(September 20, 2009 04:47 AM)
I enjoyed the film, definitely gave a high "creepy" factor and I jumped a few times. I liked how they made it subtle without jamming ghosts at you every few minutes, but let the "coincidences" paint their own picture.
Since it is a subtle movie that is meant to be mysterious (after all, it the narrator says from the beginning that no one knows what happened really), your questions are open to interpretation. I was trying to figure it out myself, and here's my interpretations:- The older man, the doctor, that Kobayashi originally goes to who shows him the books with Kagutaba mentioned, says that Kagutaba may not be a demon specifically. He seems to hint that the Kagutaba may simply be ill omens sent to someone a sorcerer wished to harm. He says that Kagutaba literally meant something like tool and evil and something else (I can't remember the exact words but it was that general gist). I was thinking maybe Kagutaba isn't fully sentient, or at least doesn't think like a normal person would. It's just a big bundle of rage and bad luck, harming anyone who comes near Junko Ishii (who was originally possessed by it).
- I agree with a previous poster, I think they are birds of ill omen in this movie, like crows or ravens often are.
- Spirals, rings, loops, etc. seem to be a recurring theme in many J-horrors. I also think they may have been some kind of representation of Kagutaba; perhaps a representation of his powers manifesting (see theory on the worms).
- I agree with a previous poster, I think it had something to do with being around an area where a psychic event was happening. Remember, she is supposed to have a very sensitive sixth sense.
- I'm guessing so.
- I think Hiro was seeing Kugataba's powers manifesting (either through some sort of precognitive visions or he could actually see Kugataba's aura around people) and that those powers looked like "worms" to him.
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daydreamer021979 — 13 years ago(April 29, 2012 08:13 PM)
I think Kagutaba is an Eldritch Abomination. It is too different and alien for the human mind to understand how it thinks or any motives it may have if any.
I Am Who I Am.
You're approval isn't required. -
TwoMushrooms — 16 years ago(December 28, 2009 05:08 AM)
My interpretation:
"1. Why did everyone who lived near Junko Ishi commit suicide? The women and her daughter in the beginning. And everyone who hang themselves in the park."- As someone said, the Kagutaba may not really be an entity, just as the old professor said, more like an 'essence' of violence and tragedy that sorcerers used to target someone. As Junko was possessed by this essence, it spread through her and infected several other people, also infecting others through them. Marika got infected 'directly' when she visited the shrine for that TV show. As we see in the movie, this 'infection' causes people to kill themselves; the mother & kid from early in the movie drive into oncoming traffic, the upstairs colleague girl and others hang themselves, the wife sets herself on fire, etc.
"2. Where did the pidgeons fit in? What were they used for and why did they behave so weird when one of the girls went into trance?" - As others have said, pigeons are used as symbols of doom in this movie. They are constantly shown appearing wherever an infected person resides. Precisely why it is pigeons and not some other animal is unknown.
"3. What did those weird knots and drawn patterns symbolize?". - Ritualistic symbols. Every 'belief' has their own symbols and the knots represented the patterns used in the Kagutaba rituals.
"4. What happend to Mariko near the end? When she went into trance and then ran into the forest screaming?" - She felt the same thing Hori (the eccentric psychic) felt as she also has a sixth sense. If you noticed, both of them reacted almost in the same way (running uncontrollably into the woods) and both of them stopped their screaming at the same time.
"5. Did the camera man survive everything?" - Open to interpretation, but my guess would be no since he had way too much contact with infected people to come out unharmed.
"6. What did Hiro exactly mean by the ectoplastic worms?" - My opinion here differs a bit from other posters, but I believe the worms Hiro is talking about are the aborted foetuses. When Hiro and Kobayashi are in the woods they see Kana's ghost, and all over her are ghost-foetuses crawling, almost as if they are devouring her (just as he said that Kana was eaten by the worms). Seriously, rewatch the scene the foetuses move like caterpillars.
"I want a frisbee made of Mexico."
- As someone said, the Kagutaba may not really be an entity, just as the old professor said, more like an 'essence' of violence and tragedy that sorcerers used to target someone. As Junko was possessed by this essence, it spread through her and infected several other people, also infecting others through them. Marika got infected 'directly' when she visited the shrine for that TV show. As we see in the movie, this 'infection' causes people to kill themselves; the mother & kid from early in the movie drive into oncoming traffic, the upstairs colleague girl and others hang themselves, the wife sets herself on fire, etc.
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dead_doll00 — 15 years ago(January 06, 2011 04:04 AM)
I just wanted to add my own interpretation regarding the loops that people kept making in the movie. Since what is happening in the movie is a "curse" and perhaps not actually a living entity/demon, then for me, the loops symbolized the never ending, cyclical nature of the curse itself. That once you were drawn into the "circle" of people/events surrounding the curse, you were doomed and likely to pass it on to others around you as well.
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arturspribeiro — 13 years ago(May 10, 2012 03:37 PM)
Most of the questions have answers already.
I think Kana, Mariko and Hiro could all sense Kagutaba in completely different ways.
Of the three of them Hiro was the only one that can actually SEE kagutaba's manifestation. Remember when he was at the mountain, with Kobayashi and the video captures the kagutaba's spirit with the fetuses? Hiro could see it without the nightvision lens. Also, in the end when Kagutaba manifest itself in the kid, Hiro can see Kana in the corner.
Another thing: although many people argue that kagutaba is not an actual demon but just the manifestation of evil, I have to disgree. I think kagutaba was the kid all along, and the fetuses recovered by Junko Ishi were for him. I also think that Kana, Mariko and Hiro were cursed by kagutaba at some point, and just like Junko Ishi, anyone who came too close would end up dying (Like Kana's parents, or Mariko's neighbour).