Film noir?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — General Discussion
hoffmanswaldau — 17 years ago(July 24, 2008 07:34 AM)
Recently, I watch many films in noir style - classical, neo-noir and cyberpunk. So I also became familiar with this one. But in my opinion, it has nothing to do with film noir. It's a simple thriller.
The film tries to be a documentary about NYC, too. It's a wonderful idea for a film noir, especially to establish a classical noir feeling. But instead of depicting the "dark side" of the city (rain, night, lonesome streets etc.), they show a vital city in summer, mostly by day. It's impossible to create light effects as in other classical films noirs. So, the ambiance is in contrary to the topic. There was no psychology behind the characters. The policemen were rather funny than pessimistic. The characters lived in perfect families and showed practically no emotions.
I don't know if I'm the only one who think this way. Maybe I didn't understand the film. Could you possibly explain? -
JohnnyStaccato — 17 years ago(September 07, 2008 10:36 AM)
I'd have to agree with you; far too often all black and white crime films from the 40s and 50s are regarded as "film noirs" in fact this film has also been sub-categorized as the seminal film in "docu-noir" style, but as you've said the square characters and mood don't fit the M.O. The excessive daylight of the movie is most likely a symptom of the filmmaker's inability to manipulate lighting while shooting on location (which has since been remedied)moreover I think but I'm not sure that Dassin even uses the "day for night/nuit americaine" technique in the opening cityscape montage.
Similarly, Henry Hathaway's films and his signature style are also dubbed "docu-noir," like "Call Northside 777" or "Kiss of Death" which take place in "real" (as in "shot on location in") Chicago and New York, respectively. "Call Northside 777" is pretty much the same type of film as "The Naked City" while "Kiss of Death" is a much better example of "docu-noir," mostly because of its story and main character. -
superstitions — 17 years ago(January 02, 2009 01:25 AM)
You have to understand that film noir was not identified as a stylistic moment in American films until the the cycle was more than half way over. Even then the term film noir didn't make its way to Hollywood until the middle 60's. So the people who were making these films had no idea they were making a film noir. As far as they were concerned they were just making a melodrama or a crime thriller.
Lots of thrillers were made in many different styles. I too would agree that The Naked City doesn't meet all of the classical criteria identified as film noir, as the film makers were deliberately trying to make the film as realistic as possible. Having said that it is after all a film about a beautiful woman who is murdered and the underworld figures who are involved.
Interesting your comments on "docu-noir". Eddie Muller in his commentary on Crime Wave, reference the docu-noir films as "public service noir".
Doug -
jic-1 — 17 years ago(January 11, 2009 05:43 PM)
the people who were making these films had no idea they were making a film noir. As far as they were concerned they were just making a melodrama or a crime thriller.
That's a point that most people just don't seem to understand. The time when people started to say 'I'm making a
film noir
' was effectively when that kind of moviemaking died. After that, they were all pastiche, parody, or tribute. I've always thought that those French film critics and academics did a disservice to the very movies they were celebrating; reducing them in most people's eyes to nothing but a collection of themes, character archetypes, and stylistic tics.
Movies I've Seen:
http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25003655 -
DC-Tiki — 12 years ago(April 13, 2013 09:07 PM)
I would have to agree even though the title of the film sounds very pulp-y and noir-ish. But this film doesn't seem to play with light and shadow all that much and it's actually quite jovial in places rather than the usual down-pat sentiment or cynical humour one might usually find in a noir piece.
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nycruise-1 — 12 years ago(November 27, 2013 08:40 AM)
Have to agree with everyone else on this film: NOT "film noir."
I edited a book on the subject and the components of "film noir" are not present: a sexy woman who is not to be trusted, a damsel in distress (who might also not be trustworthy), a slightly shady guy who falls for her, plot twists and turns that reek of betrayal, a supporting cast of both comic and unsavory characters, etc.
The lighting has little to do with it, albeit such lighting is what came to distinguish "film noir."
Back then, when they were making movies, productions were described as a "musical," a "western," a "weeper" (women's picture), or - a "murder mystery." But no one ever set out to make a "film noir" movie - which is why that term is French, because French film critics thought it up after the fact.
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udippel — 9 years ago(May 02, 2016 01:18 PM)
No. But you are right, too. It could have become a film noir pretty easily, the plot could deliver that type as well. At least on the side of the early suspects, there was a huge potential with all the hidden connections, various agenda.
Also the narration doesn't actually help with the film noir. Plus too much of comedy.
But true, film noir could have been a possible result. -
SealedCargo — 6 years ago(September 28, 2019 12:00 PM)
film noirs cover a lot of different variations and this is a police procedural and it VERY Noir
you people are idiots
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JohnnyBoy — 10 months ago(May 23, 2025 05:28 AM)
I have The Naked City in my list of best films noirs, meeting most of my criteria outlined.
https://thecineviewer.com/BestFilmsNoirs.html
For tons of movie reviews, 60+ genre lists, best of the year lists, and other content, check out:
www.thecineviewer.com -
gorgsharpy — 10 months ago(May 23, 2025 09:17 PM)
I don't know why really. It would just be De Palma, Lynch, Scorsese and Nolan.
Noir came from WW2 and the idea of post war noir is basically an absurd theory even if the Movie Brats found similarity in crime and corruption in the 60'ies and 70'ties US.
Noir today?
Well, Linklater tried with Hit Man but nobody understood it was noir, they thought it was a comedy.
Noir today would IMO require artists en masse able to expose and shake the self-reliant foundation of modern western culture. What we have become. One big middle class wishing for happiness. That's what Linklater opted for to show with his ending in school and university, but he, an impressionist, lacks the expressionism of noir.
Instead we get Östlund and Glazer playing it safe against the rich and the nazis.
But if you wait long enough as the Chinese says … -
gorgsharpy — 10 months ago(May 23, 2025 09:03 PM)
I think it is open for discussion if films like Casablanca and Citizen Kane and some of the others really are noir and even the criterias vary from critic to critic.
The male must IMO be weak, prone to the femme fatale or crime, sometimes seeking excitement outside the family "castration" environment. Structures of society sometimes corrupted. Maltese Falcon and perhaps rather Double Indemnity is sort of the model for me even if the male character is single.
Today I can see why it led to Hays Code very early and later McCarthyism. Not that I support it. -
JohnnyBoy — 10 months ago(May 23, 2025 10:17 PM)
I'm always surprised when people say Casablanca isn't noir when I'm like it got everything.
For tons of movie reviews, 60+ genre lists, best of the year lists, and other content, check out:
www.thecineviewer.com -
MissMargoChanning — 10 months ago(May 23, 2025 10:21 PM)
The Naked City is definitely noir !
The Naked City and Route 66 were all I held onto during the crazy Covid lock down!
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gorgsharpy — 10 months ago(May 23, 2025 10:55 PM)
I want it to be.
Yeah he is weakened by a woman.
But was she really fatale …?
Bogey's way of sorting out his own true feelings for her and letting her go might be metanoir.
Waterloo Bridge, Gone With The Wind? Well, Scarlett was a femme fatale but I would rather call them melodramas. But maybe you are on to something … -
JohnnyBoy — 10 months ago(May 24, 2025 01:08 AM)
I actually thought Scarlett O'Hara was a femme fatale. I made a list.
https://thecineviewer.com/GreatestFemmesFatalesList.html
For tons of movie reviews, 60+ genre lists, best of the year lists, and other content, check out:
www.thecineviewer.com