Insulting to men
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Under the Skin
famouserik — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 01:46 PM)
The movie strongly implies that any man will take a ride from a strange woman and follow her into a creepy 'I'm gonna get killed' house just because all men follow only their penis.
And then, of course, one of the few men she meets is a violent rapist wandering the forest. -
Pequod88 — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 02:32 PM)
The film implies no such thing. Rather, we have a sense that not all men are on the prowl, nor are all men suitable subjects for a trip to the black pool house. The disfigured man is unaccustomed to kind words. She tells him his hands are beautiful and asks that he touch her face. She releases him from the pool, an act of compassion that marks a turning point in the story.
We see kind strangers help her to her feet when she falls. The bus stop man carries her across the pooled water, gives her shelter, prepares a meal, and offers her a bed with no sexual advances. Seeing her trembling, he helps her down the steps at the castle.
It is she who encourages intimacy. Alas, she is not physically capable of having intercourse. Troubled, she flees. The logger is indeed a bad man who tries to rape her. His actions are in sharp contrast to the considerate bus stop man.
Under the Skin
is a remarkable film. Certainly not for everyone, it possesses no anti-male agenda. None. -
famouserik — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 03:29 PM)
She rejects men, after questioning them, that might be missed. I don't recall any men she accepts rejecting her advances.
The movie does not make clear that it is her that frees the disfigured man. We are not given any evidence he is freed.
(And then for some reason is willing to climb into the trunk of a car and obey a second alien)
Of course strangers will help anyone who fall to their feet.
The only men she acts with one on one are portrayed as willing to follow their penis, one nice bus stop guy and then a rapist.
Under the skin is remarkable in one aspect: It is remarkably full of tired sic-fi tropes. And tired movie tropes in general.
The worst violation is the core of the movie: 'Alien sees the wonder of being human and abandons their own culture and people' cliche. -
Harley0187 — 9 years ago(August 13, 2016 11:07 PM)
Right on brother.Never seen such insecurity as with strong female leads.Sucker punch was railed on the same way because the women were tearing guys a new one.You also have to understand most of the men that say these negative things about women are scared little boys with fragile egos,exactly the kind of guys women would shun.Half of these guys couldn't get laid in a whore house.Sad really.And the holyier-than-thou dudes that wouldnt go with someone who looked like scarlett,please women would follow her as well.Guys these days are a bunch of moma's boys who act tough around each other but melt into a babbling pool in front of a beautiful woman.
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imaintdan — 9 years ago(June 04, 2016 12:50 PM)
This a joke?
https://zitzelfilm.wordpress.com -
famouserik — 9 years ago(June 09, 2016 02:54 PM)
No, its not a joke.
Try reversing the roles.
Handsome man lures women into his van. RED FLAG.
Inquires if anyone would miss them. RED FLAG.
Takes them to creepy house RED FLAG.
Lures them into dark room in creepy house. RED FLAG.
Don't notice anything is wrong until they are waist deep in black goo. RED FLAG.
If multiple women in a movie behaved this stupidly, people would be outraged, with demands for the directors head.
But if men act this stupidly, I guess its OK?
This movie is meant to be steeped in symbolism about the human condition.
It shows us men are so blindly let by their penises, that all these red flags mean nothing.
Cuz men are too stupid to see anything bad coming their way.
Or the only other men in the story are a guy who is interesting in bedding this woman, no matter how strange she is.(Is she suffering from a trauma or head injury? Who cares! Try and sleep with her)
And a rapist. -
alextuxford — 9 years ago(June 19, 2016 04:39 PM)
I don't think there would be an issue if the gender roles were reversed. All of the seduction is more or less mutual and didn't strike me as predatory in a sexual sense. If the seduction scenes in the van were shown outside of the context of this movie they wouldn't be menacing or creepy at all, and that wouldn't change if the genders were changed in my opinion.
As for the men wading into the pool, I think that's just one of the mysteries in the story: there's no explanation for how a big black pool fits inside those flats, or for why no one seems to react to the strangeness of the setting. I saw that as an aspect of Scarlet Johansson's alienness that wasn't related to her sex appeal but rather to some sort of hypnosis or mind control or whatever. The men aren't ignoring the weirdness of the situation just because they want to get laid; something else is going on.
I sort of agree with you that the bus guy is a bit odd for accepting her advances when she's clearly not quite right, and the logger is a rapist so it's without question that he's not a good guy; but I have to disagree that the movie is insulting to men. I actually thought the first two guys that she seduces seemed pretty decent. -
famouserik — 9 years ago(June 19, 2016 07:06 PM)
I think the seduction van scenes are definitely creepy and predatory.
Even if I could send a friend a pic of the girl, the van, the house with address, I would still think I would end up dead if I went inside.
But not these guys. Guided by their penis, they don't care.
(doesn't matter if they are nice or not. They are too stupid to notice they are being let to their deaths)
We can't suppose there is some sort of hypnosis happening or it makes the rest of the seduction part of the story meaningless. Why then isn't the motor bike guy doing the man trapping ?
So all we see is stupid men let around by their dicks, an ethically compromised guy and a rapist. -
alextuxford — 9 years ago(June 20, 2016 01:30 PM)
I think there is definitely a disconnect between the point of view of the victims and the point of view of us as the audience. We see the completely black room and the descent into the pool, but the victims don't react to this at all. Their lack of reaction indicates a complete lack of rationality. If, as you seem to believe, this lack of rationality is caused solely by an all-consuming but naturally occurring desire to have sex, then I would agree that these characters are insultingly over-sexed male stereotypes. But I have to disagree that that is what was going on in those scenes. What we the audience are seeing is an abstraction - an endless black void inside a seemingly normal building - but this abstraction gave us some idea of what is happening to the victims. What is actually happening to the victims is probably far too complex and alien for us to understand visually. As I was watching it, it was clear to me that what I was seeing was not the same as what the victims were seeing or what Scarlet Johansson's character was seeing. If you didn't have that experience while watching: that's fine. We just have different opinions.
As for the van scenes, again, I think they are not creepy when taken out of the context of the rest of the film, nor do I think they would be creepy if the genders were reversed. Imagine a rom-com in which a young man asks polite questions and then offers a ride to a girl. While in the van, the two continue talking and become flirtatious. When the sexual tension rises, the man suggests going back to his house. Seeing as how the two are strangers, it certainly wouldn't be advisable to go straight back to his house, but I also don't think that it is an overly creepy suggestion given the circumstance. Again, that is just my opinion and you're entitled to yours.
If you got this far, sorry for the crazy-long post. -
famouserik — 9 years ago(June 20, 2016 04:27 PM)
Thats part of my problem with this movie. We are just supposed to assume that there are some sort of answers to whats going on but we are never let in on what is happening.
We can make assumptions, but if its some abstract then why show us so much of it, including the guy who isdeskinned.
But I guess we aren't supposed to care? And just slog ahead with the story of the alien who wanders away from her duties because Thats right! Sci FI cliche number 1. Aliens exposed to human culture will discard their own culture and lives and begin to understand how awesome being human is.
I still disagree with you about the van scenes.
If we know we are watching a Rom Com then we know nothing bad will come from a one night stand. (Except maybe a broken heart.
)
But these van scenes are like a prolog to Hostel, 3096 Days, a Rob Zombie movie or Room.
Any the men who submit to this seduction(even ignoring the strange black goo room) are oversexed idiots.
And again, the bus stop guy is ultimately creepy for his lack of concern at her obviously unbalanced behaviour.
Plus a rapist. -
joseph-argenio-622-182606 — 9 years ago(June 21, 2016 01:12 PM)
". . . the men . . . are oversexed idiots."
Hmm, yeah, that pretty much sums up my impression. Somehow I seem to have girlfriends & wives that other men, "friends", strangers, the guy down the street always want. Tell me I am the only one. -
karenzkritterz — 9 years ago(August 12, 2016 08:28 PM)
You cannot possibly be serious! Are you a woman? A mother? I am. I would walk through FIRE before I let my daughter (or granddaughter) get in a VAN with a strange man, no matter how nice he seems!! WTF are you thinking?? That's a headline waiting to happen. What would you tell your daughter to do if some guy pulls up and says, "Hi, sweetie! I've got some candy and a puppy here in my VAN. Wanna go for a ride?" Sweet Jesus.
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xerorei — 9 years ago(August 25, 2016 05:59 PM)
Somehow you turn a topic about
CONSENTING ADULTS
to you being a parent and children?
Lady I'm happy you're a concerned parent, and rightly so, but not everything has to do with your daughter and protecting a child.
NOBODY in this movie is a child, this subject speaks ONLY of consenting ADULTS.
And honestly if your daughter was A) an adult and B) stupid enough to get into a van with a stranger, then it'd be her own fault and her own choice.
AS AN ADULT
Evil men prosper when more evil men trick the good men into assisting their nefarious allies.