Triangle: An Objective And Thorough Analysis (Spoilers)
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Triangle
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:45 PM)
Table Of Contents
Since my original multi-part post from several years ago got cleaned up in a large sweep IMDB did a while back, Im re-posting it with some edits and breaking it up into more definable parts, with links to them below, as well as adding some new information. Its longnayVERY long. Readers can jump to any section containing a subject they wish to digest, although keep in mind that all sections are somewhat interlinked, with earlier exposition setting up and preparing certain components of later Parts.
Part I: Introduction
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982115#223982115
Part II: Mythology
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982138#223982138
Part III: Science
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982159#223982159
Part IV: Science Fiction
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982176#223982176
Part V: Loop Cycle Structure
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982209#223982209
Part VI: Origins And Event Flow
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982234#223982234
Part VII: The Seagull Conundrum
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982258#223982258
Part VIII: Assumption 2 Musings
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982277#223982277
Part IX: Asynchronous Sequential Time Loops
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982301#223982301
Part X: Alpha And Omega
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982324#223982324
Part XI: Loop Structure Basics
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982359#223982359
Part XII: Chris Smith Quotes
http://www.imdb.com/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=229909219 #229909219 -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:46 PM)
Back to Table Of Contents:
http://www.imdb.com/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=223982092 #223982092
No Interpretation Left Behind
This multipart post will refer occasionally to documents found here:
http://sdrv.ms/MoXetr
. Id recommend downloading and taking a look at the Triangle Event Matrix Excel spreadsheet and the Triangle Event Chronology Word document. The Chris Smith Interviews document also contains extensive information about the mindset of Chris Smith and provides valuable context to his intent.
If youve been browsing the IMDB Triangle board long enough you know by now that there are three predominate interpretations of Triangle, a notion supported by Chris Smith, the screenwriter. These include what have been referred to as the purgatory (Jess is dead) interpretation vs. time travel (Jess is stuck in a loop caused by a temporal corruption in the Bermuda Triangle) vs. schizophrenia/psychosis (its all in her head).
My opinion is that all three interpretations are equally viable (with Chris Smiths own words backing this up), possibly even simultaneously applicable. Like a quantum particle that has not yet been determined, Triangle doesnt solidify into a given viewers reality until they observe it, contemplate it, and make their own decisions about it. I, however, choose not to choose. Triangle was designed with ambiguity for a reason. Speculation and theorizing is a healthy endeavor, however, and the themes in this film are undoubtedly thought-provoking and compelling, prompting numerous discussions over the years.
There are several sub-factors that play into one or more of the three primary interpretations. Most discussions pit one against the other, but I propose that all of the following can be concurrently true:
1.) Jess is in a time loop (whether simulated, imagined or physical is irrelevant in my view)
2.) Jess is perpetuating her predicament with her own actions, trapped by guilt and recurring memory loss
3.) A supernatural archetypal presence is involved (namely, the Ferryman, Death, Charon, etc.)
The reason this is feasible is because regardless of whether or not Jess is dead the entire time, part of the time, or none of the time, the rules and mythology behind fantasy sci-fi time travel as it pertains to the Bermuda Triangle, real-world theory, and past cinema and literature still apply due to the nature of the loops were shown (that at least simulate a time loop). The structural framework of what we see in the film defines certain rules the phenomenon on display must abide by, and a logical thought progression starting at the core of this foundation leads us to a number of conclusions that stem from the fundamental nature of what we observe: a causal loop (meaning a string of sequential cause-and-effect events that circle back around in time so that effect precedes cause, producing the potential for a paradox).
I cant emphasize this enough. It doesnt matter if this is a so-called purgatory scenario akin to Jacobs Ladder or an actual Bermuda Triangle phenomenon, or a combination of the two. What matters is what we see in the film, and what we see is unmistakably, irrefutably, time loops. We can then take this and assign a how or an underlying mechanic, but the how in a film like this isnt very important, and Smith intentionally left this vague expressly
because
its not important. However, the concepts spawned by the scenario presented are interesting so Ill explore various hows, along with what
is
important: the loop structure.
I dont think anyone would argue that even within the context of the spirit-world interpretation, the character of Jess fully believes that shes experiencing a physical reality, albeit with anomalous events. Even if shes actually dead (or psychotic, delusional, etc. which is largely interchangeable with her being dead) and even if what she observes and interacts with exists in her own mind as a dying nightmare or an afterlife setting (which is essentially the same thing), I think it must be agreed that her environment behaves for the most part like a physical reality, complete with time loops, people thinking independently like self-cognizant entities and bleeding and dying like living organisms, almost everything operating within the confines of a real-world setting, rendering whether Jess is actually dead or not irrelevant for any discussion regarding the structure and nature of the loops (becoming relevant only in details that dont impact the core framework).
Therefore, my primary interest is the structural logic since the film undoubtedly attempts to portray and exist within the constraints of a corporeal world, even if that world is simulated (i.e. either spiritual or psychological) and plagued by the occasional abnormality. Its this framework, that which is clearly presented by the film itself, that all discussion must be confined within in my opinion. To concoct story elements outside of this basis (e.g. the notion that Jess murdered Tommy) is folly. -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:47 PM)
Back to Part I:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982115#223982115
Sisyphus
In Greek mythology Sisyphus betrayed Zeus (in some accounts its Jupiter) by outing his affair with Aegina (in some variations of the story Zeus abducts her), the daughter of Asopus, and then Sisyphus deceives Thanatos (a.k.a. Death) by asking him to test his chains, tricking him into being chained himself, in order to escape Tartaras (i.e. the Underworld, or Hell), where Zeus had imprisoned him. With Thanatos chained humans could not be accepted into Hell, making everyone immortal for a period of time, obviously a big issue for both the gods and humanity itself. So Ares, annoyed that he could no longer kill people since they could not die without Thanatos doing his duty, freed Thanatos and sent Sisyphus back to Tartarus.
Sisyphus then tricked Persephone to let him out, stating that he would return once hed admonished his wife for throwing his body into the public square (which hed asked her to do on his deathbed as a test of her love, to see if shed follow his wishes instead of giving him traditional funeral honors, i.e. burying the body, coins on the eyes, etc.). But once freed from Tartarus, Sisyphus refused to return to the Underworld, realizing he enjoyed being alive too much, and was forcefully dragged back by Hermes (in some accounts of the story, by Mercury, and by other accounts he goes on to live a complete life and dies naturally many decades later).
For his trickery (i.e. for cheating death), Zeus punishes Sisyphus by tasking him to roll a rock up a hill, only to have it roll to the bottom just before reaching the top. Due to his hubris, the very quality that had lead Sisyphus to think he was better than the gods and could cheat death in the first place, he continues to attempt to complete his task despite it obviously being impossible (in effect enacting Einsteins definition of insanity). Zeus had in essence finally bound Sisyphus the only way he could: by trapping him in his own prison of pride, where he was self-compelled to commit to a task that he could never complete successfully, but that he would continuously attempt to finish out of egotism and unfounded, irrational faith.
Eventually becoming aware of his dilemma, Sisyphus says to himself, There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn. So Sisyphus decides to dig in his heels and try even harder, his pride leading him to believe that his contempt will eventually allow him to successfully push the rock up the hill. So he remains there trying again and again to complete a task thats set up to fail, trapped by his own pride.
The Rime Of The Ancient Mariner
In the The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, the unnamed Mariner kills an albatross (albatross follow ships at sea to glean the remains of fish that are caught, which is deemed a portent of bad luck by the crew. They make him wear the albatross carcass around his neck as a sign of the misfortune they are sure he has incited. They later come upon a ghostly vessel where Death (a skeleton) and Night-mare Life-in-Death (a deathly pale woman) are playing dice for the souls of the crew. Death wins the crew in this game and Life-in-Death wins the Mariner. Her name hints at the Mariner's destiny, who will endure a fate worse than death as punishment for his killing of the albatross. One by one, all of the crew members die, but the Mariner lives on, seeing for seven days and nights the curse in the eyes of the crew's corpses, whose last expressions remain upon their faces.
Eventually, the Mariner's curse is lifted when he sees sea creatures swimming in the water. Despite his cursing them as "slimy things" earlier in the poem, he suddenly sees their true beauty and blesses them. As he prays, the albatross falls from his neck and his guilt is partially expiated. The bodies of the crew, possessed by good spirits, rise again and steer the ship back home, where it sinks in a whirlpool, leaving only the Mariner behind. A hermit on the mainland had seen the approaching ship and had come to meet it with a pilot and the pilot's boy in a boat. This hermit may have been a priest who took a vow of isolation. When they pull the Mariner from the water they think he is dead, but when he opens his mouth the pilot has a fit. The hermit prays, and the Mariner picks up the oars to row. The pilot's boy goes crazy and laughs, thinking the Mariner is the devil, and says, "The Devil knows how to row." Afterwards, as penance for shooting the albatross, the Mariner, driven by guilt, is forced to wander the earth, tell his story, and teach the lesson he learned to everyone he meets.
Paying The Ferryman
It could be argued that theres at least a loose connection between Sisyphuss promise to Persephone that hed return to Tartarus with Jesss promise to the taxi cab driver that shell return to the cab after he tells her hell leave the meter running and then asks if shell return. This may be a valid reference to make -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:48 PM)
Back to Part II:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=223982138#223982138
Understanding The Science
The following is not directly relevant to the film (for that skip to later sections), but it paints a curious picture of the reality we live in and provides a basis of understanding for discussions in later Parts. You may not find this as fascinating as I do, but in my opinion what follows is important for everyone to at least attempt to grasp, whether applying it to the context of Triangle or otherwise, because it shines a light onto everything from religious belief systems to what we think we observe on a daily basis as we trip our way through life.
Times Arrow
According to Einsteins theory of Relativity time is relative, based on the pull of gravity and the comparative speed of a given object, i.e. each perspective through space. In other words, "time's arrow" is effectively an illusion, a byproduct of these processes, and therefore so is the causality of Newtonian physics. Each individual's reality is so similar that we don't see the difference, which is why in the three-dimensional world around us Newtonian physics works so well. But at a quantum level, there are in fact different realities for each of us, i.e. reality is quite literally perception (or more accurately, perspective, viewpoint, angle, etc.), with each of us seeing an oh-so-slightly different hologram, yet with fundamental physical constituent components that span each perceived reality tying each illusion together into a massively complex whole. Technically, this occurs at a quantum level, meaning each subatomic particle in our bodies or in a single object has time pass differently for it based on the level of gravitational force pulling at it combined with its velocity through space.
A report published in September of 2010 detailing the results of studies concerning time dilatation and relativity utilizing ultra-accurate atomic clocks has proven that every subatomic particle has time pass for it at a different rate based on the criteria of gravity and spatial velocity. One facet of this experiment compared the passage of time between two atomic clocks, one only a foot above the other one. As the theory predicted, time passed at a different, albeit phenomenally small, rate for each atomic clock. Although past experiments in space and on airplanes have garnered the same result, this was the first time an atomic clock accurate enough to measure the difference of only a foot existed. What this proved is that time quite literally passes slower for our feet than for our heads because our feet are closer to the center of the Earth, which are therefore having an ever-so-slightly greater force of gravity exerted on them, thus proving and turning Einsteins theory of Relativity into a proven fundamental law of the universe (i.e. its no longer just theoretical).
As stated previously, the effects of gravitational forces are combined with the impact of velocity through space, which dictates that the faster you move the slower time passes for you relative to another object (throw in 100 objects moving at different velocities relative to each other and the calculations get quite complex). Move as fast as the speed of light and time all but stops for you (the speed of light seems to be the only constant in the universe, although even that has been recently questioned with the supposition that maybe light just appears to be a constant because the variance is so minute we cant detect it). Based on whats now been experimentally proved, the forces of gravity slowing time down for a given individual object is compounded with that objects velocity through space relative to all other objects. We must consider that the Earth itself is hurdling through space at a very high rate of speed, that the Earths rotation spins us through space, that the Earth rotates around the sun, and that the very fabric of space itself is expanding, all of which feeds into the velocity that determines how fast time passes for us relative to other objects effected by these same components of motion.
Although all of this occurs at a subatomic level, meaning the variance is broken down to a per-particle basis (e.g. not just feet vs. head, atomic clock on the floor vs. clock a foot higher on a table, etc.), contiguous particles that are stuck together into a single conglomerate, or macroscopic object will have very little variance between them due to time dilatation since they will always travel together. In fact, to create a significant variance that would result in a noticeable time dilation would require insane speeds and/or gravitational differences.
For example, due to the Earths spin living on the equator would get you an additional 465.1 m/s of velocity versus standing at one of the poles (this does not take the wobble of the Earths axis into account). Compared to anyone living at a pole you would be 0.00004 seconds younger for each year that passes. I -
warrior-poet — 11 years ago(February 19, 2015 10:06 PM)
Interesting reading on time travel relevant to the scientific off-shoot discussion inspired by the film:
http://www.geek.com/science/quantum-physics-just-solved-one-of-the-gre at-paradoxes-of-time-travel-1603503/
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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warrior-poet — 11 years ago(March 19, 2015 12:24 PM)
Interesting article confirming Seth Lloyds previous experiment using post selection:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/feb/05/photons-simulate- time-travel-in-the-lab
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
-
warrior-poet — 4 years ago(April 20, 2021 04:57 AM)
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24933250-500-quantum-weirdness-isnt-weird-if-we-accept-objects-dont-exist/
Must have a description to read, but essentially once we accept that everything is relative, absolutely everything right down to the smallest particle, the weirdness of the uncertainty principle/wave function, entanglement, etc. all fades away. No need for gonzo multiverse theories. It's referred to as the relational interpretation of quantum mechanics, and erases decades of sidetracking, nullifies the absurdity that string theory has become, and takes quantum mechanics back to its roots in many ways, before the idea of a literal wave function was introduced and derailed everything.
he description of a physical system cannot be separated from the other physical systems that interact with it. Abandon the notion of a real wave function that mirrors reality and take this statement seriously, and we have a way to make sense of quantum theory.
the properties of a system aren’t absolute: they are relative to the interacting system. We make a mistake if we assume that they can be attributed to one single system. In the quantum realm, all facts are relative facts. For instance, it makes no sense in the absolute to ask about the state of Schrödinger’s cat. With respect to itself, the cat is either awake or asleep. With respect to the observer outside a box where the cat is hidden, it may be that neither is true: as long as the cat isn’t interacting with the observer, the question of its state has no meaning.
In other words, everything is relational. Absolutely everything, without exception. Once that concept is applied, everything else falls into place. -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:49 PM)
Back to Part III:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=223982159#223982159
Many Worlds
Hugh Everett's many-worlds theory is one of several interpretations of quantum mechanics spawned from observations concerning Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle. In brief, since certain observations cannot be predicted absolutely, there is a range of possible observations, each with a different probability. Each of these possible observations corresponds to a different universe, or timeline. In essence, every possible outcome that could happen does, each splitting off into a separate universe or timeline that shares an identical history, but each with their own multitude of futures that will be split into yet more universes each time more than one possible outcome exists. Once we observe one of those outcomes it becomes our reality and the others disappear.
One question posed by the theory is: what if these universes only disappear from our perception and actually still exist, just waiting to be observed by someone else? For example, suppose a die is thrown that contains 6 sides, and that the result corresponds to a quantum mechanics observable. All 6 possible ways the die can fall correspond to 6 different universes, i.e. one version of you sees the die land on 2, another in a different timeline on 5, another on 1, and so on. More correctly, there is only a single universe technically but after the "split" into "many worlds" these universes cannot in general interact, existing independently and forever separated from their past world. This is commonly referred to by the scientific community as a Level III Multiverse. There is a level I and II, then a level IV and V as well, and I wont get into the details of them here.
I am personally skeptical of any diverging timeline/Many Worlds based theories, at least until further experimentation produces concrete results. To a certain extent this Many Worlds concept may just be a way to interpret relative spacetime (a simpler way to help visualize whats occurring) at a quantum scale. Its worth bringing the concept up here though because it could potentially be called upon to explain some things we see in Triangle, although ultimately I think we have to rule it out, which Ill explain later.
Wormholes
A phenomenon to invoke that might allow for a physical object to move through spacetime would be a wormhole. Some theorize that physical information sent through a wormhole would be destroyed during transport due to a feedback loop that would accelerate until it collapsed, never allowing the information through. And if applying this to Triangle, a wormhole on Earth crossing only a few miles of ocean that allows an entire physical biological entity to be deconstructed and reconstructed elsewhere is not remotely realistic. But it could be made to work if put into a sci-fi fantasy scenario, and might account for a person moving backward in time in a way that he or she could then meet her earlier self as a future copy of the same entity.
Wormholes, also called Einstein-Rosen bridges, are an oft-used tenet of science fiction for transportation across vast distances and/or time. I wont get into detail, but a wormhole is essentially a quantum-scale tunnel between two points in spacetime. In my view, however, exiting the threshold of the bubble-like Bermuda Triangle anomaly itself is actually what throws the Jess character into the past in the movie. In this case the time travel trigger is a product of how the membrane of the spacetime bubble interfaces with the outside world, and the act of traversing the anomalys threshold in this case adjusts an object or persons position in time, i.e. their temporal state. This threshold appears to be the point at which Jess and her companions on the yacht are fragmented into disparate time stream segments, and then how she gets transported to the past.
The imagination can run wild with sci-fi possibilities, and another factor we could throw into the mix is quantum entanglement, especially since using quantum entanglement to send information into the past is more than just fantasy (refer to Part III for information about a mind-blowing experiment that actually occurred). So I think we can attribute what we see in Triangle to both entanglement and a type of wormhole, or in this case what I might dub a time-wall, which corresponds to the event horizon or threshold of the Aeolus Environment. Regardless of the method, if a character could go to the past while maintaining his or her present physical state (or be reverted to a past physical state), meet itself, and have the option of killing itself, thereby introducing a new event that did not previously exist, it could irrevocably change his or her own history in a way that conflicts with what previously happened to that character at that past point in time, i.e. it could create a paradox.
Fringe Science
Variants of the ideas discussed above and in Part III have been drawn upon num -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:50 PM)
Back to Part IV:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=223982176#223982176
The Structure Of Triangle And The Time Loops
In addition to time-looping, theres another phenomenon we witness several times in the film: time skips. This skipping forward and backward in time (and back and forth between what Ill dub spatial polarity as well) could be the result of overlapping timeline fragments. It includes the fresh then rotten then fresh again food, the mirrored scenes where everything seems to be reversed, the skipping record scene that happens just as a new yacht appears, etc. With all other factors put together, the record/time skipping glitch indicates a disruption that occurs when Jess timeline loops back in on itself, and the mirrored scenes (particularly the one with the camera moving through the mirror Jess stares into, known as the mirror-walk scene), are indicative of melding, undulating, overlapping time stream segments.
This exists regardless of whether were seeing this as part of a purgatory or physical time travel interpretation. These loops and skips absolutely occur in the film, and its what happens in the film that really matters, regardless of any pseudo-scientific theories about the mechanisms behind it or even the various interpretations of why its taking place. For this section Im going to focus on the logic behind the structure of the string of events observed, not necessarily as a depiction of fictional happenings or circumstances, or the how and why of it (Ill get back to more positing on that matter later on), but how the plot and the events that occur within the framework of that plot are structured. Removing all other elements, were left with can be referred to as time loops, the structure of those time loops, and the evidence that when pieced together allows us to logically deduce the operational nature of how the time loops are presented in the movie.
As previously mentioned, to aid in this analysis I chronicled all of the major events in the film, including time stamps for when they occur, in a Word document entitled Triangle Event Chronology, along with a matrix of those events in Triangle Event Matrix that associates when they occur in correlation to each other. On other worksheets in that same spreadsheet I designed several iterations of a diagram that provides a visualization of how the loops must be occurring if the entire cycle is followed through logically. During the early stages of this work I played with a variety of structures, and considered a consecutive format (where Jess(1) exits to Loop 2 and so on instead of Loop 1 depositing Jess into Loop 3, skipping 2 loops in a staggered manner), but I ultimately dismissed that pattern, largely due to it requiring an arbitrary value for when a new yacht appears. As stated in the Introduction of this post, these documents can be viewed or downloaded from:
http://sdrv.ms/MoXetr
Crossing The Streams
In the film we observe time skipping or hiccupping occasionally, and if the mirrored scenes are any indication, space flips as well, each time a new yacht arrives. We also observe each loop appearing at a different time within the anomaly relative to when the other yachts show up, with each loop connecting into the Aeolus Environment, the anomalous temporal bubble, about 30 minutes after the previous one. This temporal discrepancy occurs at consistent intervals, at first appearing to be triggered by Jess killing everyone, including a version of herself going overboard. However, we find out at the end of the movie that killing the others has nothing to do with the new capsized yacht showing up. Jess falling overboard and then cycling through the past is actually the cause (i.e. its merely her looping back around that results in her showing up again, albeit instantaneously). Her killing everyone has no bearing on why its all happening except that doing so culminates in Jess falling overboard or getting brutally beaten and then thrown into the drink (and thus into the past).
Based on the two scenes where we see the fresh-then-rotten food during separate loops, a shift does seem to occur at some point between the first time the group enters the dining hall and the next time Jess enters it (just before she encounters Victor), which could indicate a consistent interval where time skips forward, given the small timeframe between those two dining hall scenes within a single loop. Most likely, however, this just indicates that Jess has crossed over into the timeline fragment of one of the other overlapping loops, meaning as timeline fragments overlap its possible for an occupant of the loop to pass between the environment of one loop into the environment of another one at a point of intersection. Im not sure if Smith necessarily intended this or was just throwing in random weirdness to make things seem off, but this theory explains these observations perfectly.
Overlapping Loops
Because Jess timeline is looping back i -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:51 PM)
Back to Part V:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982209#223982209
Overview Of Proposed Origin Events
The following section is how I'd lay out an amalgamated time looping interpretation. It involves Jess dying each loop instead of once before the loops start, influence by an archetypal figure akin to the Ferryman/Death, and an actual Bermuda Triangle temporal disruption that physically throws her into her own past. The Event Matrix (Origin) worksheet in my Triangle Event Matrix.xls spreadsheet depicts the details of what may have occurred at the beginning and end of the entire cycle, and Ill delve into that more in-depth later on in Part VIII and IX.
Note that the events preceding the loop cycle (up to her arriving at the harbor) are speculation, albeit coherent conjecture deduced from the patterns established by the subsequent loops we observe in the film. We dont know exactly what happened up to that point (and to be accurate, nor do we know the explicit details of the preceding 60+ loops, although we can ascertain a pretty solid idea), only what happens during the snapshot of the several intertwining loops were shown (only one of which we see with any degree of completeness, although we see portions of a total of 6 loops, enough to extrapolate a pattern).
Keep in mind that only minor tweaks to what follows would be necessary to convert it fully into a so-called purgatory interpretation (the main difference being that Jess only dies originally in a car wreck instead of doing so after driving to the harbor the first time and then looping back around) or to take it the other way and make it a fully physical Bermuda Triangle sci-fi fantasy construal. Like a quantum particle or Schrodingers cat, Im choosing not to choose between the two states. Im choosing both states simultaneously, where Jess is in constant flux moving between the land of the living and dead repeatedly each loop as the cycle progresses.
Inter-World Relational References
By this I refer to elements we observe in the film that tie or link components of the world of the Aeolus (i.e. the bubble, temporal anomaly, etc.) with the outside real world Jess originates from, or as Ive dubbed between the Aeolus Environment and the Outside World Environment. The most noteworthy clues are the 8:17am time on Jess watch that matches the clock on the wall in the banquet hall of the Aeolus, the AO symbol on the drum of the marching band she sees after tossing the bird aside and in the banquet hall of the Aeolus, the Anchors Aweigh song played by both the marching band and the record player on the Aeolus, and room 237 that plays a prominent part in the events on the Aeolus matching Jess house number.
For a purgatory theory, meaning one for which Jess is dead the entire time, these links suggest that she originally died in a car crash (similar to what we see in the film) and that everything that happens after that is either in her head or in a personal hell. In this case 8:17am (which is almost certainly the time of the car crash), which is the time Jess watch and the Aeolus banquet hall clock are stuck at, is the time of Jess death. The Anchors Aweigh song, along with what appears to be a time stutter linked to the record player, seems to correlate with a new Jess showing up on a capsized yacht. The AO symbol ties the Aeolus to the outside real world (occurring on drums in both). It should be noted that the drums display an English A and O (which we could surmise stands for Aeolus Orchestra, although thats speculative).
In a physical time travel theory these connections between environments could be chalked up to some form of pseudo-science, the unexplained weirdness of the Bermuda Triangle, or merely a figurative occurrence. Since Jess dying in the wreck and then deciding to not have Death bring her back to life (to the harbor) would violate the potential paradox situation she created by killing Jess Prime at the house, and a Bermuda Triangle spacetime disturbance would disrupt the normal flow and order of things, its reasonable to forge these links around that, and theres a precedence for this type of scenario both in literature and cinema, where different versions of reality leak into each other and key events and/or objects are linked across fragmented time streams.
In other words, I do not see the symbol on the drums, the Anchors Aweigh song, matching 8:17 time, etc. as proof of a purely purgatory interpretation. They could just as easily be signs of a dislocated time continuum, the byproduct of a Bermuda Triangle anomaly that leads to a temporal paradox Jess creates for herself (for herself being a key phrase, since as a result everything that occurs beyond that point would revolve around her at the center of the paradox as a kind of fixed point in time tied to the time of her death in the car wreck, although really anything other than her returning to the harbor at that point would result in an established paradox -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:52 PM)
Back to Part VI:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982234#223982234
The Seagull Pile Controversy
In this section I propose an explanation for the piled up seagulls. It will be primarily presented from a science fiction time travel standpoint, but the methodologies can be applied to any interpretation. Although Im drawing upon information from the film directly, I will not disagree that it is a speculative venture. However, based on what were shown in the film, I deem it reasonable speculation. I will also not claim that this was Chris Smiths intention, but I dont see that it matters. He has not addressed this aspect of the film, and therefore Im assessing the matter on its own merits, based on whats presented within the movie itself, including the structure of the loops as theyre depicted and the mere fact that theres a pile of seagulls.
Three assumptions can be made based on what we observe in the movie:
Assumption 1: The Grandfather Paradox
Time travel paradoxes as theyre understood in mainstream science fiction are at play in Triangle, creating a situation that allows Jess to repeat the causal loop she and the seagull are in after creating a potential temporal paradox by killing her former self from the originating timeline fragment at the house. This entails some form of innate natural function, whatever that may be, that works to prevent or in this case correct temporal conflicts, i.e. the so-called Grandfather Paradox where an object that goes to the past interferes with its own history in a way that would have prevented it from going to the past.
The previously cited Seth Lloyd Grandfather Paradox experiments (see Part III) utilizing quantum entanglement and post-selection techniques seem to prove the existence of some natural mechanism that prevents temporal paradoxes on at least a quantum scale (which may be the only scale for which time travel will ever be possible). I invoke this premise as presented in science fiction literature and cinema and within the movie itself since Triangle clearly depicts a macroscopic sentient entity being transported back in time to a different locality than she was, in fact her original iteration still is, at that point in her past.
Assumption 2: Linear Timeline Fragments Looping Sequentially
The temporal anomaly, whether an actual physical Bermuda Triangle phenomenon, a metaphysical construct designed by a sentient non-human agent, or a combination of those two things (e.g. a god-like being posing as the Ferryman, or who the Ferryman reports to, could very easily create physical Bermuda Triangle events), has created a kind of contained multiverse environment composed of fragments spun off of a linear timeline (i.e. splitting off asynchronous timeline fragments in a manner that allows them to interface with each other), and each thread is being fed back into their shared originating timeline fragment one at a time in sequential order (despite it being a fixed point in their shared past), however that might be occurring. To clarify, what we observe is a single linear timeline thats being fragmented and then looped back around into itself sequentially.
Ill dedicate Part VIII to expounding upon this particular item in-depth.
Assumption 3: The Following Seagull
This assumption proposes the idea that a seagull follows the Triangle yacht into the Aeolus Environment, follows Jess back out again into the past, then hits the car. Im forming this conclusion simply because the seagulls are piling up and because at first blush this creates a logical incongruence with the rules established by the film regarding why other objects are piling up within the anomalous temporal/spatial event. I am not suggesting that this was Smiths intent. He merely wanted an eerie way to reveal that Jess is in fact still in a loop at the end of the film. But Im compelled to explain it nonetheless.
So Im invoking the pervasive seagull theme present throughout the movie (a reference to The Rime Of The Ancient Marinersee Part II) that seems to be intimately tied to Jess circumstance. Persistently throughout the film were shown that a seagull is following Jess (e.g. above her car while shes driving, as the yacht disembarks, as the yacht sails out on the ocean, the numerous seagulls milling around the Aeolus, the seagull flying far above just after Jess falls overboard during the shot of the sun, etc.), as well as a number of scenes where Jess hears a seagull and looks up at the sky (e.g. while taking laundry from the clothes line, as she gets out of the taxi, etc.). And Im using the pile of seagulls itself as evidence to support the notion that they are a byproduct of the temporal disruption, even though they are no longer in it, that the anomaly is having an impact outside its threshold due to how it interfaces with the outside world sequentially and by rendering objects that pass through it anomalous (i.e. out of sync with their own originating timeline segment). -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:53 PM)
Back to Part VII:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982258#223982258
Assumption 2: Linear Timeline Fragments Looping Sequentially Additional Notes
The following is exposition for Assumption 2 in Part VII. Note that Im avoiding mythological references here, with maybe one or two exceptions, and transposing them fully to a science fiction scenario, but more to point Im deviating a bit from Triangle and focusing more on the general time looping concept itself.
In a normal time travel scenario an object would encounter itself if it were to be transported into its own localized past (meaning it goes into the past at a point in time that intercedes with its own history). This means if a time traveler were to stand on a temporal sending platform for 1 hour and then get transported to the past 30 minutes to a receiving platform 10 feet away from the sending device, there would be two of them temporarily. As a result, the sending version would see himself appear from nowhere next to him 30 minutes before being transported. Their temporal existence would overlap.
But there would never be more than two of them at a time, and it would only happen once as long as he stepped off the receiver and didnt crowd in next to himself on the sending platform or do something that would interfere with what was already observed, which he knows he didnt do because its already happened, hes already witnessed that future. This outcome would adhere to the Novikov self-consistency principle (which basically states that any attempt to change the past would only end up producing an outcome identical to that known history, i.e. the past cant be changed in a way that creates a paradox). This conclusion is bolstered by the aforementioned Seth Lloyd quantum teleportation experiments.
The implication to free will this time travel scenario invokes is thought-provoking, but theres actually a logical explanation for it. In a fictional scenario akin to what we see portrayed in Triangle, lets have the time traveler kill his former self 15 minutes after he appears in the past on the receiving platform, before his past self gets transported 30 minutes later. There is every indication that this is impossible, that something would occur to prevent such paradoxes. What could that mechanism be? As discussed previously, a causal loop collapse, i.e. the timeline fragment would collapse back into its original state, undoing the events that led up to the temporal conflict, either preventing it entirely or erasing it so that it effectively never happened.
So the time traveler goes back in time then kills himself. Perhaps in this fictional universe the laws of physics function in a manner that corrects paradoxes after the fact instead of preventing them as long as the possibility of a correction exists, i.e. up until a point of no return. We could throw in that perhaps something inexplicably compels him to step back on the platform, something akin to the seagull being used as the long arm of the Aeolus Environment to guide Jess back into the fold. In this case, maybe a light fixture falls from the ceiling, or some other seemingly natural event, making him jump back on the platform. But lets remove that concept from the scenario for the sake of simplicity (and consider the possibility that the seagull looping through the temporal anomaly and then hitting the car windshield in Triangle is truly just a coincidence).
If our time traveler were to loop back 30 minutes then kill his past self whod been standing on the sending platform for 30 minutes, creating a potential paradox, we can boil down his subsequent choices to: 1) he gets on the sending platform and waits to be transported again, or 2.) he doesnt get back on the platform. If he chooses the first option perhaps he then perpetuates the loop by taking the place of his former self who he killed (we have to assume in this case that physical laws allow for this), but the laws of physics kick in and nullify any other choice he makes, anything that doesnt involve being transported again and fulfilling his own past.
It does this by collapsing the loop and resetting it to its original state, erasing any event that alters the past that was already established. So if he were to wait beyond the 30 minutes, hed disappear, the body would disappear, that span of time and any byproduct of his deviant actions would disappear. The paradox would be resolved simply by expunging it, by forcing a do-over. Similar to the outcome of the Seth Lloyd Grandfather Paradox experiment cited in Part IV, the effort would simply fail if it hit, or predicted, a paradox.
Technically this timeline fragment collapse would also occur if he killed himself. Its doubtful that some mechanism would allow him to go back in time and replace his past self to fulfill the transportation event. As soon as he did anything that would cause a paradox it would all evaporate, and the effort would fail. But to align this wi -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:54 PM)
Back to Part VIII:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=223982277#223982277
A Fragmented Linear Timeline
This section includes detailed exposition pertaining to Assumption 2 of Part VII (and the outline presented there), and exists as further elucidation on the Assumption 2 musing introduced in Part VIII.
In Triangle we see that a new timeline fragment (meaning its not a new timeline, merely a portion of the originating timeline cordoned off into a finite segment) is split off from the originating timeline each time they enter the bubble. This discrepancy produces an overlapping temporal loop structure that in turn produces multiple versions of the same object that then all exist within the same time frame indefinitely if they are left in a static positional state until they leave that state one way or another (e.g. get thrown overboard, cleaned up, etc.) In essence, the anomalous Aeolus Environment, the spacetime disruption bubble, has created a contained multiverse of sorts, except unlike the Hugh Everett Level III Multiverse conception where each split-off universe isnt aware of the others, each disparate timeline fragment interacts with and overlaps each other, contained so that they all occupy the same region of space. This part of what we observe in Triangle actually makes sense.
But then the anomaly does something even weirder.
It proceeds to loop and merge each asynchronous timeline fragment that it spawned back into the past originating timeline one at a time, sequentially. It essentially temporally resynchronizes each segment back with the originating timeline (which they all share, and is normal), yet simultaneously keeps them asynchronous from each other, allowing items or organisms orphaned in time as an anomalous object to pile up in the outside world, where under normal circumstances they would reset with each loop. This is bizarre to be sure, but its what Triangle shows us is happening, so is a rule we must live by, and is the assumption under which I will proceed.
So what if the time traveler from Part VIII had a transportation device that was doing the same thing, perhaps due to some glitch they missed until after an initial experiment that went awry? Each time hes transported it splits him off into a new timeline fragment thats out of sync with all other timeline segments, but then merges each fragment back into the original starting timeline in the past. Not only that, it does so in a fashion that compounds or merges the product of each timeline section with every subsequent timeline portion one at a time, where objects undergoing the transportation process are rendered asynchronous from each other, but sync back up to their shared originating timeline. This means each subsequent timeline fragment remains in the relative past of the previous timeline segments. This flaw in the system becomes apparent when our time traveler creates the paradox and goes through the process 6 times and things pile up unexpectedly.
Normally each time the time traveler is sent to the past he would loop back into the same unaltered originating timeline he just came from, prior to any changes that had been made. But because of the glitch, each time hes sent to the past he ends up in a merged timeline segment, one that retains the anomalous history (meaning time-orphaned objects) of all previous timeline fragments combined, where that history remains as the future for upcoming timeline sections in a causal loop manner. This produces some abnormal, although non-paradoxical outcomes. As long as he keeps closing the loop (i.e. either killing himself and taking his other versions place, or joining his other self on the platform), his past will quite literally also be his future, and if the coin is a part of the same errant series of one-at-a-time merging timeline fragments he is, theyd go with him even though hes not physically picking them up and bringing them along each loop. And theyd still be there when he circled back around, so theyd pile up on the table.
Heres how it would play out, and Ill utilize similar labelling that I did in part VII, with each timeline fragment designated as Timeline 0, Timeline 1, Timeline 0-1, etc. The time traveler picks up the coin in Timeline 0, goes to the past and is split off into Timeline 1 (well refer to it as Timeline 0-1, being a string with a shared history). He then appears in Timeline 0-1-0 (a combination of the originating Timeline 0, the Timeline 1 he was split off into, then back into Timeline 0), drops the coin, kills himself, picks up the coin, goes to the past and is split off into yet another Timeline (0-1-0-2), reappearing again in the past (Timeline 0-1-0-2-0), where he adds a second coin to the first one hed left there. And the timeline fragments continue to compile from there.
As long as he keeps killing himself and taking his original versions place (or not killing himself and instead joining him on the platform, in which case he -
warrior-poet — 11 years ago(July 08, 2014 09:00 AM)
In a way, here's some updated thoughts on the proposed/possible nature of the time loops (and theoretical science behind it) for a discussion taking place on the "Edge Of Tomorrow" board, for anyone interested:
http://www.imdb.com/board/11631867/board/inline/231686120?d=231742113 &p=1#231742113
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
-
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:56 PM)
Back to Part IX:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982301#223982301
Beginning And End
This further expands on certain aspects of the proposed origins discussed in Part VI. Ill preface that in this section I use terminology that correlates more to at least a partially physical (i.e. amalgamated) interpretation, but the logic behind the loop cycle structure would still apply to any interpretation. Again, the documents I refer to here (and anywhere else in this monstrously long multipart post) can be downloaded from the following SkyDrive link I provided earlier:
http://sdrv.ms/MoXetr
. And FYI, I do update these from time to time so if youve downloaded any of them you may want to make sure you have the latest version.
After laying out my matrix that correlated events between loops one very important bit of information became clear: a new Jess appears every 30 minutes, with each one appearing moments after another Jess falls overboard (whether nice or mean). Knowing this defines the nature of the loop cycle and restricts the possibilities for its overall cycle structure. In addition, although within the anomaly each iteration of Jess is 30 minutes ahead of or after the one behind or in front of her (triggered by when a version of her falls overboard), from a perspective within the "multiverse bubble (i.e. from within the temporal anomaly in the Bermuda Triangle where the timeline is fragmented) time spent in the outside world is instantaneous, or at least greatly accelerated, resulting in Jess cycling through the past and back into the anomaly mere moments after falling overboard, which results in the duplication effect, as depicted in the diagrams in my Event Matrix spreadsheet (and interestingly may be a variation of what may be happening in the movie The Prestige, one of my all-time favorites).
We could reasonably speculate based on what we see in the film that this process would continue until at some point in the distant future Jess goes to the past but instead of going home to kill herself she perhaps hitchhikes out of the state (or does anything but go interfere with original events), so no paradox is created. As a result, while Escapee Jess is moving on with her life, finally having let go of her guilt and obsession with saving Tommy, Jess Prime (a.k.a. Jess(0), or original Jess), drops Tommy off at school and drives to the harbor. The structure requires that the cycle loop back into itself (being the very nature of a loop).
One of the big problems during discussion since the release of the film has been figuring out how all this might end, and just as importantly how the cycle transitions back into itself and starts over from scratch, somehow dealing with the piles of objects in the process (so that they dont end up piling up infinitely, which is impossible since Jess 0/1 must start with a blank slate). Although the previous Parts of this post thoroughly discuss this subject, Ill now apply this to the various documents stored in my Triangle Skydrive folder and get into the details of how certain events might (emphasis on might) have played out during Jess first trip through, or in other words as the end of the loop cycle transitioned back into its own beginning.
The Loop Cycle End-To-Beginning Transition
To explain this Ill reference the 80-loop example depicted on the Event Matrix (Origin) worksheet of my Triangle Event Matrix.xlsx spreadsheet. What happens next is purely the product of imaginative deduction, but Ive devised how the cycles end-to-beginning transition might occur. It requires the advent of the aforementioned timeline collapse thats triggered by Non-Paradox Jess (i.e. Jess(0), Jess Prime, etc.) coming into the anomaly and crashing the multiverse party. When she does, the time streams for the byproducts of all previous loops collapse and vanish. Jess herself (during iterations 79 and 80 in my example) does not dissipate because she is technically still the same Jess, a.k.a. Jess Prime, just in a later loop (i.e. shes not a copy like the object piles are because shes looped back through time and time again, literally the same entity), but all the duplicate objects disappear, even the keys that Jess(80) has in her pocket (just a short while before she would have dropped them) since as Jess(0) enters with a new set of keys the keys that were cycling around become a duplicate.
We must place this within the framework of the Loop Structure diagram and the Event Matrix (Origin) worksheets in my Triangle Event Matrix.xlsx spreadsheet, which explains the timing of why Jess (and the others) reappear after she falls overboard and gets transported to the past. Its Jess(80), not Jess(1), who actually writes the first note and drops her necklace that gets caught on the grate of the duct. I envision a scenario based on information about how Chris Smith, as he reveals on DVD commentary, originally conceived this scene (with Jess nearly committing suicide with the -
warrior-poet — 12 years ago(December 30, 2013 10:57 PM)
Back to Part X:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982324#223982324
Time Loop Structures (Normal vs. Triangle)
In this section Ill lay out some of the basics of the loop structure in an effort to depict how it MUST be based on how a time loop works in conjunction with what we see in Triangle. Not only is it logical for Jess to meet her future self because of the temporal fragmentation the temporal disruption creates, it's the ONLY way it would happen. In a non-fragmented situation this of course would not happen, and the only duplicates that would ever exist would be in the past. Jess would kill herself, take original Jess' place, and continue the loop, without ever meeting any other versions of herself on the Aeolus. But time is fractured, which is why we get the triplicate result we see in the film (with perpetual integration of 3 loops at a time).
Let's break it down into several scenarios and see what happens. Remember that the number's I'm adding are merely a designation for the purpose of keeping track of the loop Jess is in (i.e. its still technically the same Jess entity). Refer to the Loop Structure worksheet in my Triangle Event Matrix.xlsx that can be downloaded from
http://sdrv.ms/MoXetr
for a diagram of this. In addition, in this scenario the exit event entails Jess choosing to not go home and kill her original self. Theres a couple of ways this exit could actually occur, but this is the one Im choosing for the example because its simpler to convey (i.e. Im ignoring the paradox for the examples).
Scenario 1:
1-loop cycle (no fragmentation is possible since theres only one loop):
Jess 1 drops Tommy off at school (since Jess 2 didnt go home and kill her)
Jess 1 drives to the harbor
Jess 1 experiences the Aeolus (no duplicates)
Jess 1 accidentally slips and falls into the past (becomes Jess 2)
Jess 2 hitches a ride out of state and never returns (end of loop). While she's doing this, since she didn't go home to kill Jess 1, the following happens simultaneously:
Jess 1 drops Tommy off at school (since Jess 2 didnt go home and kill her)
and so on
Scenario 2:
3-loop cycle WITH NO temporal fragmentation (i.e. typical multi-loop time travel scenario):
Jess 1 drops Tommy off at school (since Jess 4 didnt kill her)
Jess 1 drives to the harbor
Jess 1 experiences the Aeolus (no duplicates)
Jess 1 accidentally slips and falls into the past (becomes Jess 2)
Jess 2 hitches a ride home and kills Jess 1
Jess 2 crashes and takes a taxi to the harbor
Jess 2 experiences the Aeolus (no duplicates)
Jess 2 accidentally slips and falls into the past (becomes Jess 3)
Jess 3 hitches a ride home and kills Jess 1
Jess 3 crashes and takes a taxi to the harbor
Jess 3 experiences the Aeolus (no duplicates)
Jess 3 accidentally slips and falls into the past (becomes Jess 4)
Jess 4 hitches a ride out of state and never returns (exits loop). While she's doing this, since she didn't go home to kill Jess 1, the following happens simultaneously:
Jess 1 drops Tommy off at school (since Jess 4 didnt kill her)
and so on
This simpler, non-fragmented scenario illustrates the repeating cycle structure. If at any time Jess does something to no longer perpetuate the loop for herself, the original events of her driving to the harbor are allowed to unfold unhindered, thus starting the overall pattern over again. In this manner the last loop feeds into the first loop. This also tells us that Jess MUST at some point exit the cycle. If she did not, then there was never a version of events that entailed Jess driving to the harbor. Because Jess goes to the past at all, there cannot be a version where an iteration of looping Jess isnt waking up on the beach while original Jess is getting ready at the house. We know this because of the very nature of a time loop. Scenarios 1 and 2 make it easier to understand why this is.
In other words, every time Jess is allowed to drive to the harbor there is ALWAYS a Jess that wakes up on the beach. One of two branches of events then occur. Option 1 is that she then chooses to not go home and kill her original self (e.g. perhaps she hitchhikes out of state and never returns). For option 2 she does create the paradox by killing her original self, but either after the car crash she chooses not to go to the harbor, or if she goes to the harbor she tells Greg shes not going with them and returns to the cab driver/Ferryman as she promised. In both of these cases the timeline collapses and Looping Jess, along with all the changes she made, disappears.
Scenario 3a:
8-loop cycle WITH temporal fragmentation (Triangle time travel scenario):
Note that in this scenario there is a minimum of 8 loops, with Loop 1 also being loop 6 (meaning loops 1 and 6, with 6 being the exit loop, occur simultaneously as Loop 1 and 4 did in the scenario above). Because of the anomalous fragmentation and overlapping, the normal 3-loop cycle is multiplied by 3. However, 8 is the absolute minimum number pos -
warrior-poet — 11 years ago(May 18, 2014 11:41 PM)
Back to Part XI:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=2 23982359#223982359
Pivotal Excerpts From Interviews With Chris Smith
Internet Shortcut Links for the entire interviews these snippets are extracted from can be viewed in my SkyDrive Triangle folder at
http://sdrv.ms/MoXetr
in the Internet Links subfolder, and the entire interviews have been compiled in the Triangle - Chris Smith Interviews document. In addition, video and audio interviews with Chris Smith can be found in the Interviews subfolder.
http://www.imdb.com/board/11187064/trivia
The film is set in Miami, Florida, but was filmed entirely in Queensland. Both Florida and Queensland are known as "The Sunshine State"; a nickname used on a road sign in the film.
The film makes many oblique references to The Shining. The number 237 crops up, which was the same number of the spooky hotel room Danny was forbidden to go into; there are also words written on a mirror, a ballroom and an axe.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/movietime/triangle/310520 2
An empty ocean liner is the eerie centrepiece of this psychological thriller about a young single mother caught in a parallel reality nightmare. A British-Australian co-production (the first to receive Screen Australia's new Producer Offset), it was shot in Queensland with an Australian cast, but it's actually set off the coast of Miami, presumably the Bermuda Triangle.
http://www.film-news.co.uk/show-review.asp?H=Christopher-Smith&nIt emID=74
I had been trying for a long while to actually make this film. I started to write the script and gave it to my agent to read and probably only got as far as loop 2 when I went mental. I said to my agent Am I insane here, or this gonna be alright for a film, or am I going crazy? and he said, You should look at The Rhyme Of The Ancient Mariner and read it. So I tried for a long while to add elements of that and have a wedding sequence. Then theres the aspect of the Bermuda Triangle. We were playing with the idea of having Jess (the main character) getting off the boat and attending her sons wedding, because the myth of the Bermuda Triangle is that you disappear and come back years later. I very nearly had her come back thirty years later to attend his wedding, while thirty years ago she had left him to run off with a handsome man and never came back to pick him up from school. So it almost worked.
I had the original idea, which was what would it be like if the person looking over the bow of a ship is you, and youre looking at yourself as you arrive on the ship. Then from that I built the whole story with a group of characters, the central one was a mother, but is she a good mum or a bad mum? Is her child autistic, or is it in his mind or her mind because she has a sort of Munchausens syndrome by proxy? There were all these mad ideas I had, but then there was the idea of what happens if there isnt really a beginning and an end and we keep her trapped in this kind of circle.
So what is that circle? Is it some sort of purgatory because shes a bad mum? Is it guilt, because if youve done something wrong you cant escape from it and cant escape from yourself? Or is it just a kind of ghost ship movie? Or a psychosis movie? There were all these layers, and I wanted to have all of them. Even when we shot the movie, we had three endings. They were all at the same point, post-car crash, so it was does she have amnesia there or the other alternative is that she proactively goes back into the circle. So the question then is why would she choose to go back into it all again?
There are moments when I throw verbal questions at the audience, for example when the other characters in the film say that she (Jess) is crazy. I think in the armory sequence where she starts to write the notes you begin to think shes lost her mind because shes talking to herself. I think the movie reeks of her whole breakdown; there are always lots of shots with multiple mirrors where shes seeing herself. Of course, the film is also about her guilt of being a bad mother or simply just being a bad person. You can never escape your own guilt. All those evil things on the ship happen because of her, but she cant remember why. Although in the end, it becomes obvious why. She realizes that she isnt the mother she thought she was and thats the morality aspect of it.
I like the title and the echoes of the Bermuda Triangle. Originally it was an idea and for some people the idea is naff, for others its kind of cool. But yes, its deliberately misleading but at the same time sells the mythology to those who want it. So yeah, I felt for those who wanted it to be that, its fine. For those who dont want it to be that, its about a triangle, like three sides to a character. It still works as an enigmatic title, I think.
http://www.moviemuser.co.uk/Features/3099/INTERVIEW-Christopher-Smith- Talks-Triangle.aspx
There was -
fillshertease — 11 years ago(August 04, 2014 01:41 PM)
I don't know if you remember me from the discussion about water over on the Signs board? We had a bit of a shaky start but soon connected and in the end I was going to go off and do some polling of everyday people to see what they thought and knew about water. That didn't work out so well and I abandoned it in the end
Anyway I just watched Triangle and then immediately came to the boards here and was not at all surprised to find you waist deep in discussions about this quite amazing film!
We're from the planet Duplon. We are here to destroy you.