Gay bashers: explain your reasoning.
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Milk
jaysilentbob37 — 15 years ago(January 26, 2011 10:06 PM)
I just could never figure this out. How exactly does homosexuality, and gay rights for that matter, personally effect you for the worst? I'm a straight guy, and have no interest in men. But I also don't see why this has to be such a huge issue. Is it really THAT big of a deal?
I hear this debated over and over these days and could never hear a straight answer. So religious reasons aside, why all the hate for gays exactly? If someone could PLEASE just give me a straight answer, that would be awesome. -
hadmatter — 15 years ago(January 27, 2011 01:38 PM)
An admirable question, but unfortunately there is no such thing as a straight answer to this question. If you subtract religious reasons, then the only thing left is insecurity in one's own sexuality. And they'll never admit to that.
I am the sod-off shotgun. -
IronWings2112 — 15 years ago(March 04, 2011 11:03 AM)
@Harper, I do not think many, if any homosexuals are asking for MORE rights than straight people, it is just like the misconception that female feminists want more rights than men. It just is not true, they just want the SAME rights.
I find it funny when some non-minorities get all worked up or upset when certain groups fight for equalitygroups who have never had it.
I guess it is possible for people in the "majority" to suffer or be discriminated againstbut if you look deep enough it may be based on a particular issue, not relating to their "majority" status. for example, a person can be in the majority, being straight or white, but there could still be bias against them because they are overweight, or handicapped ect.
I would argue these people would no longer simply be part of a majority, but part of a segment of the population who needs people fighting for them. Honestly if someone is a white, rich, male, who is viewed healthythey probably do not need a movement because there is little discrimination in Western society towards them.
and just because the majority doesn't feel comfortable(oh so sad! lol) with what these activist groups want, so what?!? People weren't comfortable with a lot of past equality rights certain groups wanted, and now these rights are generally accepted. Times change, minds grow, people will get over their bigotry or prejudices.
Plus we don't live in a strict democracy in America for a reason, so there isn't mob rule. The majority is not always right, so there is activism to fight back, and sometimes the Government rightfully steps in.integration of schools, civil rights act, and so forth.
It is as if you saying "stop your bitching and whining!!!, we've given you enough!" when it isn't your right to determine that. There is still in-equality in this country based on race, sex, sexuality, and so on, don't pretend there isn't. A lot of good work has been done, but we aren't there yetnot to mention the groups trying to push back against the social progress.
and when I say in-equality, it is based on access and opportunity to certain things, so equality would be equal opportunity and access.
I honestly can't see how people can argue this is such a free and liberated country when not everyone has the same rights, nor is it such a free country when people would give up freedom for drummed up fear based on the whim of knee-jerk politicians.
to quote from the German power metal band Gamma Ray.
"We never will be free until the sun is shining for us all!!!"
btw, I am straight, white, male, and I am proud to be an activist for everyone's rights. -
Writerchick10 — 14 years ago(April 16, 2011 12:37 AM)
How can you say things like that, and then look yourself in the mirror and not feel ashamed?? I used to get much, much angrier about comments such as yours when I was younger but now I simply feel badly for you and your pathetic opinions and viewpoint. If you can watch Milk, in it's entirety and with an open-mind (and after reading your post, I'm not even sure you're capable of that), and not see how tremendous a human being he was than I feel even more sympathy for you, because you're missing out on the opportunity to put your admiration and respect in an incredibly deserving man. All that, and I haven't even mentioned how MASSIVE an impact Harvey Milk had on gay rights. As the first openly gay man elected to public office in California. How can you possibly not see how significant that was for the LGBT community? Are you really that incapable of comprehending, even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, the incredibly magnitude of that accomplishment? It was just as significant as the first African American or woman elected to public office.
Watch the entire film, I beg of you. Milk wasn't just campaigning and working for gay rights, he was doing so for human rights. What about that film at all portrayed Milk as a "petty politician of no consequence"? You're either watching a completely different movie or you've just got your eyes tightly clamped shut and your fingers stuck in your ears. How was he petty? As for his "only significance" being that he was homosexual and that he was shot, well that's simply ludicrous. Milk would have been just as vital to the advancement of gay rights had he not been killed. Not to mention that Sean Penn is absolutely brilliant in the role.
Who gets to decide who and what is normal? You? Stop putting yourself on such a pedestal, you're not God. You don't determine who is and is not living outside the boundaries of the natural order. No single person has that right.I personally can't have children (due to an illness that forced me to have a hysterectomy at age 21), so does that mean I'm not normal? Being gay is no more a voluntary decision than contracting some form of cancer. You have no right to speak for people, and I'd like to know where you came up with the "fact" that most people sense or believe homosexuality is not right. I didn't realize that you took a door-to-door poll across America before making such a powerful and utterly ridiculous statement? Also, your "facts" about the rate of suicides amongst gay individuals is complete and utter crap. Nearly all of those instances of suicide took place because of the hateful prejudice and bigotry that those tragic individuals are forced to endure on a daily bases. It's not different than a teenager committing suicide because they were continuously bullied. It's a permanant means of escape. If you were to do some research on the amount of homosexuals who committed or attempted to commit suicide, you would undoubtedly find that only very small percentage do so because they are ashamed of their lifestyle, and wish they could "cure" themselves. 99% of your post was total conjecture, and inaccurate as well. The definition of marriage as being solely between a man and a woman is totally antiquated, and ultimately must be updated. Just as the laws that dared to subjugate blacks or women, declaring them an inferior race or gender, eventually had to be altered.
I'm not even going to bother arguing against your homosexual marriage=incestual marriage statement because it's rubbish that's not worth even a second of my time.
I doubt my rant is going to change your mind even in the slightest (bigots such as you have often spent a great deal of time convincing themselves that their delusions are accurate), but I had to say it anyway. Just on the off-chance that some young, impressionable youth comes to this board looking for support and encounters your post, full of so much prejudice and hate. I can only hope that they take a moment to read my post as well. They're not abnormal or suffering from any sort of affliction, and that was one important message of gay rights that Harvey Milk fought tirelessly to promote.
http://fictionisparadise.blogspot.com/ -
stefanheikel — 14 years ago(April 17, 2011 04:47 PM)
ikillen
Apparently experts in the field of psychology universally disagree with you:
And you are a liar when you say your views on homosexuality are not religiously based. Anyone who sees your posting history can clearly see you are an evangelical idiot. -
lkillen — 14 years ago(April 30, 2011 11:19 PM)
"And you are a liar when you say your views on homosexuality are not religiously based. Anyone who sees your posting history can clearly see you are an evangelical idiot."
I just love to see manliness behind a keyboard. Note how I have not called anyone names or attacked anyone's character. So what, pray tell, is in my posting history that says I am an "evangelical idiot"? I doubt I have a dozen posts on IMDB. But when you can't argue the facts, you attack the character. -
hadmatter — 14 years ago(July 05, 2011 12:48 PM)
The very fact that you describe homosexuality as "anathema" is plenty of proof of where your convictions lie. The word
itself
is religious. Your
hatred
is religious. Your point of view, frankly, is an embarrassment to the human race.
Note how I have not called anyone names or attacked anyone's character.
Oh, you most certainly have. Just because you don't believe that homosexuals are human beings or that they deserve your respect does
not
give you license to make the claims you have made and then claim you weren't attacking. Everything you said is an attack.
But when you can't argue the facts, you attack the character.
You certainly do.
Maybe you should get some facts next.
I am the sod-off shotgun. -
Louisville88 — 14 years ago(September 01, 2011 09:29 PM)
I do not bash gaysbut I will not listen to people stand on soap boxes and make speeches like, "Equality for all." And then deny "rights" to another group that does not have political correctness on their side. "Born that way" doctrineas in, "I was born like this and can't do anything about it so accept me." Is greatly flawed. First off, there is not ANY hard evidence linking homosexuality to some sort of birth issue and that's it. It's not a nature v.s. nurture it's a nature and nurture. If you were to get just a hundred gay men, or even just ten, they would all have a different story. Having met and interviewed hundreds, there is not a "one way" answer. Now back to my point, to say that they are born this way and should be allowed to do whatever is pure prejuidice and hypercritical to the other groups of people who can claim just the same. Should LGBT people be treated like humans? Yes, for that is what they are. But should they get special treatment because political correctness is on their side while others stay in their "closets" or control/handle their issues? No.
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rrb — 14 years ago(September 01, 2011 10:47 PM)
What "special treatment" are you talking about? The special treatment that prevents us from marrying, like any other citizen? The special treatment that, until a few weeks ago, prevented us from serving our country in the military? The special treatment that's gotten us beaten, killed and fired from jobs for no other reason than b/c we're gay?
You claim you don't bash gays, but you come to this board and do exactly that with your post, claiming we manipulatively seek some unnamed "special treatment." Your incoherent ravings about the origins of sexuality (to say nothing of laughably rank misusage like "hypercritical") show you to be none too bright. "If you were to get justten [gay men], they would all have a different story"about what? How they came to be gay? Do you know how you came to be straight? What's your point here?
"But should they get special treatment because political correctness is on their side while others stay in their "closets" or control/handle their issues?" More incoherence, more "special treatment" accusations. Again, what are you trying to say here? That gays who are stay in the closet, or as you say, "control/handle their issues," (how is leading a double life in the closet "controling/handling" their sexuality?) are better than those who are out?
If Lousville88's comments are representative of the right's arguments against gay rights, our movement is in very good shape. -
hadmatter — 14 years ago(January 03, 2012 02:01 PM)
marriage?
He never used the word marriage.
lol, you are one dishonest queer,i can tell
Awesome. You must be super smart. How about you show how he was dishonest?
By the way, jackass, you've been reported for hate speech.
I am the sod-off shotgun. -
SimplemindedSociety — 11 years ago(May 11, 2014 06:24 PM)
'What "special treatment" are you talking about? The special treatment that prevents us from marrying, like any other citizen? The special treatment that, until a few weeks ago, prevented us from serving our country in the military? The special treatment that's gotten us beaten, killed and fired from jobs for no other reason than b/c we're gay?'
You're not listening because you don't wish to and regardless of the reasoning, it will be dismissed. Being beaten, fired, serving in the military, this and that, is not comparable to the argument for the right to marry.
The word "equal" is only a word, and yet a word that is being relied on to satisfy a request that is not a parallel to marriage. We could assign the word "equal right" to anything we want, then.. Where does the "equal rights" start and end?
Then when 'equality' does not convince, we throw in the word "discimination". You are assuming that denying marriage rights to homosexuals is demeaning to them as people. That is not true. It's not a matter of superior/inferior but different.
It'a also not about consenting adults; consenting adults are not allowed to do anything unless it's lawful. This idea of "how does it affect your life" is selfish in it's own way. Not everything we enforce or believe in directly affects every person's life at that moment. And it's not about who makes the better parent; that does not change the institution of marriage either
And would it blow you mind if some homosexuals are against gay marriage?
Or would you claim they are closeted, ashamed,etc? That would also be a generalization. -
jaroslaw99 — 9 years ago(November 02, 2016 02:05 PM)
Simpleminded society - Obviously I wish I had seen your post before marriage equality became the law of the land but since I didn't, I want to address what you did write. You say "adults can only do what is lawful." The problem with your statement is the state (meaning government) is only supposed to limit freedom for very good reasons. I think children should be in bed by 8:30 pm up to high school age, and it is an excellent idea, but I can't make a law like that. Plenty of children stay up later and seem to be okay. SCOTUS finally decided that same sex attracted people are citizens worthy of equal protection of the laws and there is no reason (religion notwithstanding) to deny marriage.
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stefanheikel — 14 years ago(September 04, 2011 03:17 PM)
"And then deny "rights" to another group that does not have political correctness on their side."
What "rights" are being deied to whom? Do you mean the religious right now looking more and more outdated since homosexuality is much more mainstream now? It's called the first amendment. They can say/believe anything they want but they have NO right to force their beliefs onto me via legislation.
"First off, there is not ANY hard evidence linking homosexuality to some sort of birth issue and that's it. It's not a nature v.s. nurture it's a nature and nurture."
There is strong evidence linking genetics to homosexuality though. Regardless, homosexuality is not a choice and cannot be changed, as cited by dozens of professional, credible organizations (religiously based organizations need not apply).
"Having met and interviewed hundreds, there is not a "one way" answer."
Please elaborate on this.
"to say that they are born this way and should be allowed to do whatever is pure prejuidice and hypercritical to the other groups of people who can claim just the same."
Are you talking about alcoholics, pedophiles, etc? That's not a valid comparison because those conditions are harmful to the person/other people. Homosexuality is about love between two consenting adults. Also, please do not mention anything about AIDS or anal sex because such issues are outdated (AIDS is still an issue in our community, but it is prevelant in other communities too).
"But should they get special treatment because political correctness is on their side while others stay in their "closets" or control/handle their issues? No."
As rrb said, what "special treatment"? This is a common claim from anti-gay persons and frankly it's getting tiresome. The only things we want are to have our relationships held up to the same level of legal protection/respect as straight relationships, discrimination protections in employment, housing, accomedation, etc., and anti-bullying protections/programs for schools (GLBT youth are four times more likely to commit suicide then straight youth). We already have national hate crimes laws and open military service so we have made much progress. As far as acceptance, that will come in time. Just look at Generation Y (those under 30), and it's not hard to see that the future is on our side. -
Emmywins305 — 12 years ago(November 09, 2013 08:24 PM)
Louisville 88,
You ARE bashing gays. Gays DO NOT get special treatment. In fact, they still have less rights than straight people! Marriage rights, hospital visits, inheritancethese are just some of the issues straight people don't have to worry about. If you think gays get special treatment, then I dare you to change lives with an openly gay man in the BIBLE BELT for ONE YEAR and see the "so-called" special treatment you get. I doubt you'd even last for one month.
By the way, the word is hypocritical not hypercritical. Learn to type correctly if you're gonna post.