Not quite sure where I went wrong in my spelling but whatever, and if you can't tell I'm not from the U.S, and if I ever
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Waiting...
matt-mclean-91 — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 06:16 PM)
Not quite sure where I went wrong in my spelling but whatever, and if you can't tell I'm not from the U.S, and if I ever went there, and was served and the waiter stood there expecting a tip, I would shake his hand. That's it. Am I cheap? Nope. Do I think I should pay someone extra for a job they're already doing (regardless of how little they do get payed)? Definitely not.
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HaroldCarter — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 06:33 PM)
Matt, the other poster gave you outdated information. All servers in the U.S. get paid at least minimum wage, either outright, or their employers are required to make up the difference if their tips and wage don't equal out to minimum wage.
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lukeshand — 14 years ago(November 04, 2011 07:03 PM)
Yeah, no. I worked in restaurants for 16 years. Restaurants seldom match minimum wage. If you live in a small town you're especially screwed because you can't report the business for fear of it being closed down and you losing your job. I also live in a state with no-fault firing. At smaller businesses you don't have to do anything wrong to be fired. Chains normally determine that you need a certain number of write-ups before you can be fired. I worked two jobs for about 8 of the 16 years. During that time, I worked at 1 restaurant that matched minimum wage. The other eight years I worked in 0. The restaurants I worked in were both chains and Mom and Pop.
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HaroldCarter — 14 years ago(November 10, 2011 02:37 PM)
Yes, it is the law. If you're saying that there are employers that break the law and don't do it, of course it's up to the servers to report it. Wal-Mart was caught not paying their employees overtime a few years ago, and were held accountable for it because employees brought it to the authorities attention. If a server puts up with their employers breaking the law, frankly, that's on them.
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm -
HaroldCarter — 14 years ago(November 10, 2011 05:08 PM)
My point is that is the law, if an employer is violating the law, it's the employee's responsibility to report it. I always tip if I get good service, but it is not the customer's responsibility to make up the wages of employees who's rights are being violated by their employer. It is up to to the employee that is being wronged to report it to the proper authorities.
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movie_fan59 — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 10:15 PM)
That is certainly your right, but you're actually costing the server you just stiffed money out of his or her pocket. He still has to tip out the cooks and busboys at the end of his shift the same amount of money whether you tip or not. He pays taxes on his tips at an estimated rated based on a percentage of the total amount he "sold" that evening.
You didn't just not tip him, you actually took money out of his pocket. I hope you feel good in your cheapness. -
louderthandrew — 14 years ago(October 01, 2011 10:06 AM)
Matt, you can sit here and give us the old self-righteous "I'm not gonna tip you for doing your JOB" line of thought all you want, but you appear not to have any sort of grasp on how this system works. Fact is, whether you like it or not, this system IS in place, and it's in poor taste to dine out without paying into it.
I worked in this industry for years. I'm out of it now, but just because I'm in a field that pays well and isn't dependent on tips, I don't feel like I have the right to look down on (and short-change) those that are still involved in it. People take this type of job for a lot of reasons maybe they like the hours, maybe they like the opportunity to work a job where your earnings are directly proportionate to your performance, maybe (like me) they're simply good at it. Whatever the reason, the system is set up as such: you accommodate your guests for a very low hourly wage plus tips, you account for your tips at the end of the night, and if your earnings are less than state minimum wage, you make that back in your paycheck.
Which is all well and good in theory, but people who cite this as an anti-tipping argument ignore a few things: 1. Minimum wage is insultingly low, and nobody takes a job like this with the intention of making minimum wage. 2. Your paycheck is calculated on the basis of the pay period, not on the basis of that one bad night you had. So odds are, you won't actually see the made-up wages in pay form; if you have so much as one other reasonably good night that week, your paycheck will be automatically adjusted to assume that amount, and then taxed on those tips. Which means that, essentially, you worked one night where you received the income to which your accustomed, and another night that you simply did not get paid. Are you interested in working an entire night for which you do not get paid? 3. Now that we've gotten rid of this foolish notion that if you don't tip your server, he just makes it up in his paycheck, doesn't it seem a little bit foolish (and arrogant) to assume that he should serve you for free? He clearly can't simply refuse to serve you; he'd lose his job that way. So he's obligated to serve you to the best of his ability, and trust that you're a decent human being and will compensate him for doing so.
And besides, the mere fact remains: if you enter a restaurant, odds are tables are being rotated amongst the servers. Which means that if you come in, looking for a meal, and don't tip, you've wasted the time of a server who could have been waiting on a person who will pay him for his time. Seems a little bit selfish to me; seems to me like fast food or at-home dining would have done the trick of filling your belly, while not robbing a working stiff of their wages. I'm not sure why this is such a ridiculous proposition. Say what you will about the tipping system, but I'm all for how it works I don't agree with lowering company overhead by working only the lowest-paid workers the longest, but hey, that's corporate America for you. At its most ideal, though, a system that relies on tipped service does the following: it lowers the price of goods by splitting your cost up into separate fees for goods and services, and (if everybody abides by the mores) provides incentive for excellent service.
So, yeah. "I don't tip" at least as it pertains to American culture is 100% bullsht. -
HaroldCarter — 14 years ago(October 01, 2011 11:37 AM)
"1. Minimum wage is insultingly low, and nobody takes a job like this with the intention of making minimum wage."
But you did take the job knowing that might be all you will be making depending on the customers you get. People come on this board, and others, all the time and say that servers don't even make minimum wage, yet leave out the fact that they really do if the tips and salary don't equal out. Hey, I understand the frustration, I used to work sales, and it was on commission, I didn't take the job with the intention of making minimum wage, but my eyes were open, not every customer was going to buy, and they don't tip for taking up your time. I may have made a presentation for close to free, but those are the breaks.
I do tip what I deem appropriate if I get good service, but I understand where Matt is coming from. I don't have much of an issue with the rest of your screed, but yes, servers are paid minimum wage, and they were well aware when they took the job that not every customer necessarily tips. -
movie_fan59 — 14 years ago(October 01, 2011 04:43 PM)
"At its most ideal, though, a system that relies on tipped service does the following: it lowers the price of goods by splitting your cost up into separate fees for goods and services, and (if everybody abides by the mores) provides incentive for excellent service."
Most of what you said makes sense, except the above excerpt. The net impact of separating the cost of goods (food and beverage) and the cost of services (wages paid to servers), when tipping is expected, remains the same. Customers don't end up paying less due to this separation if they tip.
Further it doesn't lower the employer costs since the employer must still pay payroll taxes on reported tips and remain liable for payroll tax on unreported tips. -
movie_fan59 — 14 years ago(September 24, 2011 08:27 PM)
So what you're saying is that when tipping is customary, like in a full-service restaurant, you are too cheap to tip. Obviously you aren't aware or don't care that the person being paid to serve you is paid less than the minimum wage, based on the expectation that you will leave a tip. Clearly if service is bad, then tipping isn't warranted. But thanks to the way the laws regarding taxation of tips work, that server loses money every time they serve you when you don't tip.
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nogobobo-138-153038 — 14 years ago(September 16, 2011 01:12 AM)
Seriously you all need to get over it. I worked in the service industry as a server for 9 years, I am now in management. Wait staff are constantly whinging about whether or not they get tipped, some of you may be minimum wage but most have a pretty good deal. you work casual, can change shifts whenever you want but still get the same perks as a full time employee. Smoke breaks, not-showing up for work or being late. Servers look after servers in other restaurants. Managers who assist you doing your job dont get tipped. the people you are serving dont get tipped when they fix your car, clean your drains, weed your gardens, kill your pests, clean your clothes etc etc. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE JOB QUIT. NO-ONE SAID YOU HAVE TO BE A WAITER. The hospitality industry is the only one with staff who think they are more entitled to tips than anyone else. And when you give poor service it reflects on the establishment which means less customers, less profit for owners so less jobs for people who dont want to work for their money.
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movie_fan59 — 14 years ago(September 24, 2011 08:16 PM)
Since you're a member of the hospitality industry you need to get over it yourself. Tipping isn't required of customers patronizing your business. It's not a law, it's not a rule and while it is customary, any tip should be based on good service, not on some expectation.
I've been both customer and server in my life. I tip regularly but the amount is definitely based on the quality of service. Once when I went to a restaurant where I was dining 2 or 3 times a week I got the worst possible service. The server wasn't all that busy (she had all of three other tables), took almost 15 minutes to take my order, didn't refill my beverage once (I had to track down the busboy to get it done), didn't ask me if I wanted dessert and I had to wait another 15 minutes for her to get done jawing at the server's station to bring me the check. Of course I left no tip. The next time I came in that server wasn't working the station where I sat, but she came to my table and got in my face about stiffing her. I told her exactly why I'd stiffed her and that if she didn't get out of my face I'd go to management about it.
Good servers do all the things you described. They are the exception rather than the rule. I find the quality of service in most full-service restaurants to be average, not exceptional. I still tip the average server more than 10% at a minimum, but when service sucks, so should the tip.
If you don't want to work for tips, get another job. -
DeRo64 — 13 years ago(July 07, 2012 09:54 PM)
The restaurants should really just pay the servers more instead of making them rely on tips to make ends meet. If they raise the prices of the food accordingly, it'll mean less confusion.
"There is no escape, John!" -
schroeber — 12 years ago(June 01, 2013 09:57 PM)
Yes, get the employers to pay a decent wage. Why all the attention is on the customer to give the servers a decent wage is beyond me! Come to Scandinavia, we pay our servers enough money that tipping is not expected.
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strippedsmile — 13 years ago(July 31, 2012 10:35 AM)
If for whatever reason I can't tip very well (like I scrounged up enough money just to get the dinner), but the service was amazing, I'll tell them how much I appreciated it and let a manager know how amazing so and so was. Its really the only thing that keeps me from feeling guilty I couldn't tip.
If anyone does this, make sure you go to a MANAGER, not the seater. They likely will not tell the manager. It's better to tell the manager directly.
"I've gotten into so much trouble, I wouldn't know how to act when I'm not in trouble." -
rabbyt1 — 12 years ago(April 28, 2013 12:16 PM)
People complain about tipping, but go to a place like Europe and you'll see how lucky we are in America that a bowl of plain mac and cheese isn't $20!
I always tip at least 15%. If the service is terrible I will lower the tip, but generally I rarely have this much of an issue. Once in my life the tip was "learn how to be a better server" when the restaurant had my table and I and ONE other couple and I could hear the server laughing her ass off in the back while we waited for ages for our food, refills, etc. I was about to drink the KETCHUP I was dying of thirst that bad! Never went back to that restaurant again either.
If I get outstanding service I tip closer to 20%. And in my personal experience most servers work hard to get that
I remember one time we had a huge table and the server didn't even use a paper to get all our orders. We were doubtful but when ALL our food came and everything there was there we applauded the guy lol. Gave him a great tip then as well -
Doc80 — 11 years ago(January 29, 2015 06:37 PM)
Yes, exactly. I've mentioned it several times on topics like this. If the restaurants pay the wait staff a decent wage, the restaurant is simply going to get that extra money from the customers by charging them more for the food. So at the end of the day, the people that bitch the most about it are going to be paying that cost anyway.