Punjabis obsessed about Punjab
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Bend It Like Beckham
thenerdwithin — 18 years ago(March 20, 2008 06:34 AM)
Don't call the people in this movie Indian. They're Punjabi, and all of them from the same small state in India. I'm a non-Punjabi Indian, and I don't get it. Why are Punjabis so obsessed with their own state, own people and own culture? Just because a Punjabi's directing this film, she put all Indian characters Punjabi. They all speak in Punjabi and dance Bhangra and all. Why can't they think of themselves as Indian and not Punjabi? Even in Bollywood, when a Punjabi like Karan Jowhar is directing a movie, he has to put all the characters to be Punjabi and they'll sing Punjabi songs. Never seen a Tamil or Bengali or Gujarati song on his films. WHY ARE PUNJABIS SO OBSESSED ABOUT THEIR OWN STATE?
If I make a movie, I'll never do that. One character will be from Punjab, another from Gujarat, another from Assam etc etc. And they'll never dance bhangra. Punjabis are all xenophobic. -
Movie_junkie22 — 18 years ago(March 22, 2008 03:00 PM)
I see what you're saying but India is very diverse. I don't think Punjabis are totally obsessed as such, but its more of an identity. Bhangra, for example, originated in the Punjab, which is why in Bollywood as an instance you will see most Punjabis. They do incorporate North indian elements like the Hindi language as well. But in South India(in Kerala, etc), the language spoken is completely diffrent from Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu(the latter are very similar to eachother so people of who speak these languages can understand one another). They also have their own style of music and dance diffrent from that of the Punjab. Re: the movie, I understand what you're saying. I guess since this family was in England, they had to maybe reassert their identity to show that not all Indian people share the same culture in terms of language, music, etc. On another note in "Where's the Party, Yaar"? with Kal Penn takes place in the US and people from all religions from India hang out together (South Indians, North Indians, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs, etc) at school because they have the Indian culture in common. I think your idea for a movie is cool, as it is an original concept.
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parihav — 18 years ago(March 23, 2008 04:45 PM)
I am a Hindu Punjabi, and I am very much INDIAN and therefore would like to be called so. Most Punjabi's also feel this way (although there are some Punjabi's, who wish to form their own country, however they are in a minority).
When it comes to identity, outside of India people do consider and call themselves Indian when they meet other non Indians, but in India, people associate themselves from what state they, even if they are not Punjabi. For example, you have strong identities in Bombay with being from Maharashtra etc.
And yes, Punjabis are proud of their culture and yes I can understand how we throw it in other peoples faces. It just so happens that many of the producers and actors are of Punjabi background in Bollywood (anybody with surname Puri, Kapoor, Khanna, Deol, Roshan, Chopra etc and others), thats why the make movies as such.
But when it comes to this movie specifically, you have to consider the fact that there are almost half a million Sikhs, all of whom are Punjabi living in the UK, and Hindus as well as Muslims in the Uk of Punjabi background. Also, the director is Punjabi, and Punjabis are very strict and can get violent when it comes to interracial relationships. Therefore, considering all of these factors, choosing a Punjabi family in this movie made sense. -
punditz — 18 years ago(March 24, 2008 05:04 AM)
They could have had a gujrati family as they are a plenty in the UK and US.
As for punjabis, they are loud and boisterous, thats why fun to be with. They do tend to be self obsessed at times, raving about "punjabi culture", but in a country like India with tonnes of religions and diverse states, i think you need to be a bit loud to be heard.
I am a hindu (non punjabi) from delhi and as much as i enjoy the company of my loud, fun loving punjabi friends, i hate it when they get ostentatious and rude.
"I no longer know who I am, and I feel like the ghost of a total stanger." -
Pinky2000 — 17 years ago(May 09, 2008 01:52 PM)
I am so glad someone summed this up for me. I love the Indian culture but had no idea whatsoever that there was so much diversity within the country itself.
In my mind, I just assumed if you were Indian - you were Indian. Not that I am trying to generalize it, I am just glad to have learned something new. -
hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(May 11, 2008 03:30 PM)
I am so glad someone summed this up for me. I love the Indian culture but had no idea whatsoever that there was so much diversity within the country itself.
In my mind, I just assumed if you were Indian - you were Indian. Not that I am trying to generalize it, I am just glad to have learned something new.
Well there are about 7 distinct endogamous racial groups in the Indian subcontinent, with racial mixes and phenotype continuum. This ranges from the Mongoloid Apatani people of Arunachal Pradesh
http://joachimj.club.fr/imagearunachal2/11 apatani 4.jpg
to the Greek-descended Caucasoid Kalash
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Kalasha_Man.jpg
Most Indians are "in betweens" so to speak. Made that way through several millenia of intermarriage/interbreeding.
http://www.businessinnovationinsider.com/images/2006/02/Indian Natio nal%20Knowledge%20Commission.jpg
Indian blood is pretty diverse, ranging from Mongolian to Veddoid, Greek, Pathrian, Hun, Azeri, Turkish, Persian, Tibeto-Burman, Cambodian
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
bowtie-3 — 17 years ago(May 12, 2008 02:01 PM)
I agree. This certainly puts things into perspective since I am not famiiar with the Indian cultures (pardon me if I'm not being politically correct). I think many minorities can see themselves in this film. I am Filipino and the few Filipino American films I've seen show the cahracters in a similar light. Very informative thread.
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hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(April 22, 2008 01:54 AM)
Why are Punjabis so obsessed with their own state, own people and own culture?
and why shouldn't they be? Punjabis have contributed a lot to the country's history and culture , their own native script, the Khalsa, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Golden Temple which that Communist biatch Indira Gandhi tried to raze, the Sikh regiments in the Army
No race that doesn't advocate for itself deserves any consideration, the Punjabis are only doing what they should.
Punjabis are all xenophobic.
You're confusing xenophobia with ethnocentrism, and Punjabi ethnocentrism in India might save us from the next foreign invasion. They've been India's effective gatekeepers for centuries, after all, dating all the way back to Porus and Dahir and the Mallaha (well the Mallaha were part Punjabi part Sindhi, but close enough anyways). Punjabi ethnocentrism creates an overbearing culture, true, but it also makes them formidable fighters. You pick a fight with a Punjabi and you can pretty much expect to hold your own pancreas after five seconds. Hell even the Afghans would tremble in their shoes whenever a Punjabi Army marched in their direction
In Pakistan, it's different. Punjabi ethnocentrism in Pakistan, corrupted by Sunni Islam, causes them to kill the Shia Baluch, but Indian Punjabis are not like that at all.
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
punditz — 17 years ago(April 23, 2008 03:37 AM)
With all your talk of ethnocentrism, how the hell do you explain the concept of khalistan??
You obviously dont have your facts right buddy, punjabis (and sikhs) tried to break the country
"You pick a fight with a Punjabi and you can pretty much expect to hold your own pancreas after five seconds. Hell even the Afghans would tremble in their shoes whenever a Punjabi Army marched in their direction
"
Gimme a break, you really are going overboard on this one boy.
And is this what people dislike about punjabis, ie. lack of manners, sophistication, picking up a fight with anybody irrespective of age and gender and with no reason at all..
There is always a scope of improvement buddy..
"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. " -
hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(April 23, 2008 02:54 PM)
the concept of khalistan
They wouldn't be the first people in South Asia to want to secede. Besides, all that Khalistan stuff was spread by a small group of fanatics lead by Bhindranwale. You should also remember that the Khalistan terrorist insurgency was halted by a Punjabi himself (KPS Gill).
And is this what people dislike about punjabis, ie. lack of manners, sophistication, picking up a fight with anybody irrespective of age and gender and with no reason at all..
Nice little racist diatribe there buddy. How many Punjabis do you actually know?
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
punditz — 17 years ago(April 23, 2008 10:30 PM)
"Nice little racist diatribe there buddy. How many Punjabis do you actually know? "
I live in Delhi, so that makes for a huge punjabi friend list(hell, my girls punjabi, and she knows I am writing this)
Whatever I said about punjabis above, despite the fact some of my closest pals and family friends are punjus, is generally true(as they say, exceptions are always there).
After all there is a reason the Punjabi stereotype of a fun loving, exuberant, rude,rowdy,and most importantly - not to be trusted in a business deal, is formed.
I am not a racist buddy, I am a realist.Please do not be offended by my views.
I have actually debated over these with my punju friends.
As for Khalistan,I agree you have a point.
Still your point about Punjabis vs Afghans had me in splits, you really crossed the line there pal.
Punjabis tend to exaggerate owing to their boisterous nature (which is endearing).
"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. " -
hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(April 23, 2008 11:05 PM)
After all there is a reason the Punjabi stereotype of a fun loving, exuberant, rude,rowdy,and most importantly - not to be trusted in a business deal, is formed.
You sound exactly like some Russian anti-Semite ranting against Jews.
I am not a racist buddy, I am a realist.
Sure! So is David Duke. lol!
Still your point about Punjabis vs Afghans had me in splits, you really crossed the line there pal.
Ever read history books? There is a reason why the British called the Punjabis "Martial".
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
punditz — 17 years ago(April 24, 2008 01:07 AM)
"You sound exactly like some Russian anti-Semite ranting against Jews"
You sound like a moron.
OR, YOU NEED TO MINGLE, get out sometime, meet NON PUNJABIS Just get out of your refugee camp,trailer,loft,cab,bus wherever you are living.
Your too stuck up buddy(M sure you've heard that before)
"Sure! So is David Duke. lol!"
Dont try to sound smarter than you are boy!!
"Ever read history books? There is a reason why the British called the Punjabis "Martial".'
Blow me, your claim is still absurd.. You must be the village idiot of jalandhar everybody (ie.PUNJABIS) talks about.
You have to be the few DUMB punjus I came across(a rarity I admit)
"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. " -
hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(April 24, 2008 04:15 AM)
OR, YOU NEED TO MINGLE, get out sometime, meet NON PUNJABIS Just get out of your refugee camp,trailer,loft,cab,bus wherever you are living.
Your too stuck up buddy(M sure you've heard that before)
So the racist finally outs himself with his stereotyping, scapegoating and ad-hominem attacks. oh well.
You have to be the few DUMB punjus I came across(a rarity I admit)
I'm a Bengali, so there!
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
punditz — 17 years ago(April 24, 2008 05:33 AM)
YOU ARE A BENGALI..??????????? OMFG
OMFG
I dont really believe you though.
I know plenty of Bengalis and none of them would support the Punjabis so vehemently(or any other caste).And you can kiss arse if you tell me that you are a "true indian" and you believe that all cultures are equal and all the crap.
Even if you are a Bengali and support Punjabis for some weird inexplicable reason. Well then, YOU NEED HELP.
YES, I tend to stereotype.
Why?? because they exist. We stereotype because we observe a common trait amongst ppl of some particular kind(putting it loosely).
As for scapegoating - Are you telling me that I am making a scapegoat out of Punjabis from some personal observations??? LOL,cry me a river bongo!! what a nonsensical reason.
As for ad-hominem attacks - my points are absolutely solid.I deduced from your post on Gandhi that you are an NRI in US.Well desiboy, what the beep do you know about India sitting there?? Just because you live with people of mixed cultures(from india) doesnt make you a "complete indian".
I live in INDIA,I have travelled all across my country, so I know all about the cultures first hand.My claim are not flimsy, nor are they formed by any personal anger towards ppl of the subject culture, my statements are my interpretation of experiences, something I shared with people of all cultures.
Maybe you are dyslexic and could not read my earlier posts properely.
Here we go again- Most of my friends are punjabis, I love them, but that does not mean I turn a blind eye to their short comings. All over India, Punjabis are known for what I described in earlier posts.
Now coming on to BENGALIS.
Yes, you have tempted me to unleash my stereotypical fury again.
As I mentioned I have travelled all across India, spent 4 years in Maharashtra(more on Marathis later), and I did have the chance to interact with Bengalis.
Let me tell you something bongo, dont just use BIG words without fully understanding their meaning. You have a vocublary but you lack BRAINS.
I have destroyed enough Bongs in debates to know where they stand.
True, they make up for one of the best english writers in the country, but that doesnot mean each one of you Machar jhol eating morons is a la Shoba de or Amitav Ghosh.
If I were to choose between a Bong and a Punju - it would definitely be a Punju, you know why?? because Bongs are pansies,they are big on words but small on action,also they HATE HINDI, YES THEY HATE HINDI, they cant digest the fact that their language is not the national language, they go about flaunting their limited vocublary in english trying to prove a point, but mostly fail to do so.
If you are half Punjabi and Half Bengali, I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.
If you are a Punjabi, then you are stupid not to understand the theme of my posts and my views.
If you are a BONG- well, as I said before, YOU need help.
Either way my comments dont make me a racist, go find a new word boy.
We all stereotype, WE ALL DO. I am yet to meet a person who doesnt. If you dont then you probably never got out of the house.
It might be wrong to prejudge a person based on his ethinicity or have prejudices against different cultures, but thats the shrieking reality, WE ALL DO THAT, ofcourse we are proven wrong at times, but as I said before there is a reason WE ALL form stereotypes.
Now go through all my previous post, and this one, and please reply only if you have a plausible retort.(like for khalistan)
Do not reply with BIG words which are pretentious and lack depth vis a vis this conversation.
ADIOS BONGO.
"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "
