The Ending…
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — His and Her Circumstances
Flubly58 — 19 years ago(November 21, 2006 08:50 AM)
I don't really know why people hate the ending so much. I know it doesn't give closure but self-contained I think it is actually quite powerful. No one has yet given me a reason except for "IT SUCKS LOL!" and "It is amazingly bad". Not reasons just statements. I thought that the way the character's actions were described in such basic terms by the narrarators almost gave a deeper insight into the importance of these simple movements and actions. It showed how incredibly important the little things we do are since they add up to the big things we recognize. How do you climb a mountain if you don't move your legs? Is moving your leg an amazing feat? No, but if you don't do it, you can't achieve the spectacular.
Another point I think is somewhat ironic is that some say it was bad because Anno left the project. Well the fact is that he left it to his protege Kazuya Tsuramaki who has always worked very closely with him since Nadia. He obviously trusts him completely since Tsuramaki will be directing the four Evangelion movies , the first of which is coming out the Summer of 2007.
And lack of closure is not a valid point. The manga was continuing and the anime would not. Otakus (that is meant to be derogatory since Anno has stated that he thinks being an Otaku is dangerous to the mind) are so obsessed with closure and fantasy (not the genre) to feed their escapism, that when something is open ended while making a relevant statement to what is real, they get angry. They don't want to be taught about what they are trying to run from. Thats why it is so utterly moronic that the ending of NGE was recieved so badly by some. It ends in the manner of how Anno came out of his depression. It actually means something! But no, the escapist fans didn't want reality which is open ended, they want their nice fairy tale. In essence who cares about the EVAs? NGE is about the mind and thats what makes it impact people. Feeding escapism leads to self detrimation and stunted growth. You can't progress. -
IkuharaKunihiko — 19 years ago(November 22, 2006 06:09 AM)
I'm glad at least somebody liked the ending. I hope you enjoyed it. I sure know I didn't.
You're trying to blurr the line between this and "NGE" and I think you shouldn't. They are two different and separate animes with different themes. I actually found the ending in "NGE" to be brilliant. Why? It had style, ambiguity WITH a meanning and it seemed to fit into the story. I hated the ending in "Kare Kano". Why? Precisely because it didn't have just that.
You're complaining that people are not giving reasons , just statement about why the hate the ending. Sorry, but I from your post you're also giving just statements. Your "deeper insight into the importance of these simple movements and actions" is interesting, but it applyies to the whole story, not the ending of it.
One of the problems of "Kare Kano"'s ending is that the authors actually planned to make a sequel as the Manga was progressing. But they didn't. All those things they wanted to say never made it to the end. Also, instead of concentrating on the two main characters, Yukino and Arima, they suddenly started to introduce new characters, barely few episodes before the end. That way the leads were forgotten and chaos sucked in the storyline. And what about that school play that was Yukino's project? I really wanted to see it. Not only that, in the last episode, no. 26, it clearly states: "To be continued". Don't give me false hope if there isn't any reason for it.
I love this anime. But I also won't give it credit for something that it doesn't deserve. And it surely doesn't deserve one for the chaotic "ending". -
Flubly58 — 19 years ago(November 22, 2006 05:16 PM)
If there was supposed to be a sequel and there wasn't thats not the fault of those that made the episode, that's just bad management. If I thought I had an entire new season to expand on things, I wouldn't try to wrap up everything in the last episode. That wouldn't make any sense. You can't blame them for not predicting the future. Again leaving focus on the two main characters probably didn't seem like too big of a deal to them if they thought hey we got another 9 hours or so why don't we develop the surroudings a bit more. I think that for what they viewed it as, it is quite meaningful.
I didn't compare the endings together I compared the audience reactions. Kind of a bunny trail.
Really you can say that it didn't fit the story in the context of the one season, but if they were starting another road to parallel the other it wouldn't have been a re-hash. I just don't think you can judge an episodes quality based on the knowledge you already have of the series when it was most likely based on knowledge only the writers had. In that sense you have to approach it as more of a short film. If I had to judge it by whether it was a good ending to a definite one season show, I would say that it was terrible. But even then I would have to say that self-contained it was intriguing. -
swordplanet — 19 years ago(December 18, 2006 10:57 AM)
In terms of the actual episode and not the story (since we already know they intended to do more episodes) it was poorly executed and rushed. The narration was completely unnecessary and lame as if written by an elementary student. (i.e. and this happened, than that, after that, after that, then, etc.) The animation was far to simple, lacking detai, usaully without background and when it did it was just simple lines. Normally storyboards are far more detailed then what was shown in that episode. Usually if a show lacks color the purpose is to focus on shadows and fading, but all that was shown was simple sketches. Take flcl for example when they had scenes where it was just drawings like a manga, even though it lacked color the animation was vibrant, intricate, and really showed the emotions of the characters and what the scene was trying to portray.
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Flubly58 — 19 years ago(January 04, 2007 05:55 AM)
Those were extreme budget problems, not artistic choices. As for the narraration you say you think it has no reason to be in the episode, or in other words you don't understand why it is in there. I have an idea why it is in there since it made sense to me and had an impact for me. It is simple writing but I wouldn't say on the level of elementary school and it was by no means a storybook narraration but rather a narraration of specifics. Dry but full of implication.
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swordplanet — 19 years ago(February 09, 2007 12:30 AM)
If a someone chooses to release something it is an artistic choice. They may not be happy with it but it doesn't change the fact they release it. One of the first rules every true artist learns is if you are not happy with your product don't use it. I find it strange you're saying, "Those were extreme budget problems, not artistic choices" well if those weren't artistic choices the producer probably wasn't happy with it and if the creator isn't happy why would the viewer be. If the narration makes sense to you than that probably means you have absolutely no idea what is happening in the episode. It was utterly redundant and unnecessary. The pictures and the text were pretty self explanatory, there was no need for the narrator. The majority of the dialogue consisted of the words (this,that, then) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. If that wasn't clear enough for you that last sentence was an example of the dialogue. Well anyway if you enjoyed it I really don't mind, beauty is to the eye of the beholder. I'm just trying to give you reasons why fans may have been displeased with since you were asking for them.
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Flubly58 — 19 years ago(February 15, 2007 05:53 AM)
The thing I don't understand is what you wanted them to do. Just cut off the last episode? What were they to do differently under their restrictions? They couldn't wrap it up nicely, that would basically be impossible.
And I'm sorry to disappoint you but I did understand what was going on. I read political philosophy on my own time, I think I can understand an anime about high school.
Your argument that it didn't help the progression of the plot doesn't really have any bearing since there was no resolution or any real action (not violence but literal action) to the plot of that episode. Thats why since the subject covered is not as broad as usually is, the subtle things were amplified. The scene that sticks out in my mind most that to me shows it impossible to have been a choice of just plain elementary narration: Arima is shown coming into a room after which a group of people gather and are talking to him. The narrator says, "They gather. They converse." This cycle happens once over but instead of the image showing the simple action as the first time, it is said over the image of his friend (can't remember his name) staring at them in thought.
Obviously from the context we know what he is thinking, but the contrast of the simple narration (which in this case does not help the audience understand the plot removing your claim that that is its function) to a complex feeling amplifies the meaning of the situation. The narration is redundant and simple, that's the point. It is a device of poetic repetition and contrast just as you'll learn if you take a writing class. There's around twenty something official repetition devices. -
JasonMovie — 19 years ago(February 10, 2007 06:21 PM)
So is the anime ending the real ending, and the story continues in the manga as a type of "this is what would happen if it continued" thing?
I really really really liked this anime - ah, hell, I loved it. But when it got to the last few episodes, it was like "man, they need to end this play thing, and wrap up whats going on with the characters."
Do I need to read the manga to see what actually happens? It seems like the two lead lovers relationship is actually weakening
"This is your life - and it's ending one minute at a time."- TYLER DURDEN
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Flubly58 — 19 years ago(February 15, 2007 08:21 AM)
The manga was not made from the anime, the anime is an adaption of the manga. Business problems prevented them from continuing to adapt it into a second season. You can finish the story by reading the manga if you like. I might not since I watched the series for the two directors and the original style of the manga is not very appealing to me. Anno's writing is incredible and both he and his protege Tsurumaki are fantastic directors.
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jshap23 — 19 years ago(March 29, 2007 05:26 PM)
The anime ends about half way through volume 8 of the manga. There are 21 volumes in the manga. So the anime isn't even half-way through the manga.
I got into this by seeing a few episodes form the middle of the series on Demand on Comcas. I loved what I was seeing but had no idea where it came from. So I saw that it was a manga as well and got the first book. Basically it was like crack and I couldn't get enough. I bought and read all of the volumes in like 6 weeks (It would have been faster if I had had more money, $10 a book can be quite pricey!).
The manga is amazing since it delves more into Arima's whole messed up past and why he's so attracted to Miyazawa. If you really only want to see the play just get Volume 9. The whole play is in there, plus you'll get your own sense of whether you want to read the whole series or not. -
loitering — 18 years ago(April 22, 2007 08:48 AM)
The way I see it, the anime was pretty dire to begin with so the ending may as well follow in the same vain.
Don't get me wrong, the show had promise, I think if it was had better animation and stayed on course a bit more then it would have been good. There's no point tuning a manga into an anime if you don't have the budget to give the original story the credit it's due. Then you're simply ruining it.