Singer in "Sleuth" (1972) [PROBABLY FOREVER AN UNSOLVED MYSTERY]
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WillEd — 9 years ago(June 19, 2016 12:48 AM)
Bing Crosby recording of Stardust in 1931 and 1939 has short music intros before he starts singing. Louie Armstrong the same year has the long intro. Crosby in 1931 sings it through and vamps a little at the end, but doesn't repeat the third verse. The 1939 version is done the standard way. The 1939 was put on record, but came directly from his radio show. Radio might have helped standardize the way songs were done. You don't want to wait a long time for the singer to sing listening to a radio show. Also, the attitude might have been that the real star was the band and not the singer. Most of these singers, unlike Cosby, were not big names. Cosby's voice got a lot lower by 1939.
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salzmank — 9 years ago(September 04, 2016 08:48 AM)
Just checking in again
Nothing new, I suppose? I mean, even if someone sang the Porter songs specially for the movie, which is the conclusion WillEd and I ended up reaching, it was still
someone
,
some
singer. Just making sure there's still no progress made on this front. Everyone agree with me that this is quite a mystery for something so relatively minute and unimportant? Funny how these things work out.
salzmank -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 04, 2016 10:38 AM)
I can't take credit for it, though. I watched the movie years ago (after reading the playstill have yet to see the play performed), liked it a lot, and (in the back of my mind) thought the songs were well sung. One day, I saw a link to the YouTube video with Oliver dancing to the songs, and that's where all the comments (e.g., "Who was the singer?") were. Then I started Googling it, and I saw just how long people have been looking for the guy. Some commentators said that the questioner could post the question to IMDb "I Need to Know" forum, but I couldn't find any one who had done soand I took the initiative (and thereby fell down this particular rabbit hole). But those commentators long ago realized that the singer wasn't credited. Someone could always put this on a list of famous unsolved mysteries
Hey, at least I didn't ask about a movie with William Shatner in which a plane crashed in a desert and everyone on it was a ghost
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Helena727 — 9 years ago(September 04, 2016 01:41 PM)
Why not write to Prof78, the yt poster who uploaded the Frank Luther/Leo Reisman track for which WillEd provided a link? Prof78 seems to know a lot of music from that era and might be able to ID the singer in your
Sleuth
CP tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClXaWRq-cycKeWo1kDQigzw
If Prof78 doesn't know, perhaps ask a few others on yt who have extensive collections of music from that era. Good luck.
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people." -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 04, 2016 01:57 PM)
Hi Helena
Thank you for your comment. You know, I may do just thatwrite to Prof78. However, WillEd and I both came to the conclusion that the singer did them specially for the movie (
vide
WillEd's posts from May 9, May 10, and June 18, and mine from May 9 and June 17). Of course, we may be totally wrong, though WillEd has done a good deal of musicological detective work in those last few posts that make him doubtful that the singer actually sang them in the '30s. Even so, I may write to Prof78 anyway, just to ask him to make sure he can't find any such singer. Thank you again for the help! I hope we're able to figure this thing out sometime!
Best,
salzmank -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 06, 2016 11:37 AM)
OK, here we go:
I reached out to "MusicProf78," as you suggested, and here's what he had to say:
"Interesting! I'm not well-schooled on British vocalists (which this must have been), but these arrangementsthough somewhat 'traditional' in naturedon't sound much at all like actual vintage recordings from the early & mid-1930s period of the songs' initial popularity. And I agree that they may have been recorded specifically for the "Sleuth" soundtrack, however the voice doesn't ring a bell. "
So it is almost undeniable now that the songs were done for the movie. The question is, of course, the same one from the beginningwho the heck sings 'em?
Again, thanks for your help, Helena. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:07 PM)
Oh, yeah, this is a big oneone of those great unsolved mysteries of the moviesbut, as much as I don't want to do it, I think I'll have to give up on it. WillEd and I went on for a while about it. He initially thought that Frank Luther sang them before we eventually decided that they were sung specially for the moviewhich hypothesis was confirmed by "MusicProf78." As to who sang them, though
Your guess is as good as mine. -
Byrdz — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:16 PM)
Might also ask on the Classics Board some of the folks there know the most seemingly trivial of trivia !
Edit : read more of the notes and I kinda like the Michael Caine idea
.
It would fit in with the whole fool-em-whenever-you-can idea of the film. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:26 PM)
Hm! I'm ashamed to say that, even after all my searching about this movie, I still hadn't seen this before you pointed it out!
I will try to reach out to them; why not?
As hopeful as I am that the Classics Board, or anyone, knows the solution (i.e., who sang the songs), I've got to admit I'm skeptical after so many people over so many years (see all the links I posted in the [very] original post) have been searching for the answer.
Anyhoo, thanks for finding this. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:45 PM)
Unfortunately, I just checked a sample of the "Anything Goes" on the two albums that that one poster suggested, and it's not it. Gee, I would like it to be the Michael Caine idea, but (1) I've never heard Caine sing and (2) the singer certainly doesn't have that famed Cockney accent of Caine's. Sure, he could have disguised his voice, but I don't know if he could have done it so muchit certainly sounds less like him than (SPOILER) the impression he does of a Welshman when he impersonates "Inspector Doppler," and that's definitely
trying
to fool you. It would fit with the theme, absolutely.
On the other hand, this shouldn't be such a difficult questionso, as unlikely as it sounds, I'm leaning towards the idea that the filmmakers hid the identity on purpose. Why didn't they name the singer in the credits? It seems to break every darn copyright law in the businessespecially if it's a then-contemporary singer, not a '30s or '40s singer whose renditions might have gone into public domain. Lord! I wish we could solve this mystery. I like the singer's voice, but I'm not crazy about it; I'd just like to answer these unanswerable questions once and for all. Maybe it's the human desire for mystery. Oh, well, no need to wax philosophical about it -
Fleur_de_lis — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 09:24 PM)
Sorry I don't have time to devote to this right now, but in the past I have solved a couple of these by figuring out who paid to license the song, and then looking for the associated licensing info. It sounds like this was recorded for the film, so that's a starting point on year.
You might also send Ben Mankiewicz a tweet with a link to your post. He probably loves the movie and an answer may lie in family archives. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 06:13 AM)
Gee, the Ben Mankiewicz idea is great. I don't know if he'll respond, but, hey, who knows? Thanks for that.
No worries about your not researching this question! It's certainly not the most important problem in the world, or even closejust one of those silly little mysteries. I will take up your suggestions.
All the best! -
Byrdz — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 04:03 AM)
Ok then. I have checked with my two resident friend "knowers of details" and BOTH of them are answerless on this one. One echoes the suggestion that it's a "faux vintage" singer and since this is of the time before those endless credits for even the stars dog-walker, we may never know.
My other expert had seen the thread but having nothing to add had passed it by but he has a suggestion about the phones on the other thread.
As for me I
really
like the in-joke idea of it being Michael Caine singers often become non-accented ! No doubt it isn't him but I just like the idea !
Thanks for this interesting thread. It's been fun. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 12:38 PM)
Oh, sure, you're welcome. The very fact that it
shouldn't
be such a big mystery is what got me interested in it to begin with.
Thanks for asking your two friends! Yes, I agree that we may never know, but it does seem strange that they would hire a singer to sing the songs specially for the movie, have a "music by" credit, even (for Pete's sake!) have credits for "sound recordist" and "music arranger," and still not credit this guy. Perhaps I'm just seeing too much into it.
It's a nice idea, that the singer is Michael Caine, but, yeah, I don't think so. I wonder if the singer is still alive and knows that so many people are interested in his identity. Y'know, someone could come up with a clever plot idea for a book based on this mystery.
I'll look in the other thread for your friend's thoughts about "the phone don't phone!"
And a sincere thank
you
for your help, Byrdz. It has been fun.