Question re: Lawyers Being Thrown in Jail
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — My Cousin Vinny
Movie_Buff_2 — 9 years ago(July 25, 2016 11:48 AM)
I just watched this again, and thoroughly enjoyed it (always do). However, something struck me as odd this time around. Are lawyers still allowed to practice law if they have a criminal record? Or would they get disbarred from the A.B.A.? I thought it weird that the judge had Vinny thrown in jail, and allow him to continue defending the boys.
Thoughts? Opinions?
TY
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JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(July 25, 2016 11:16 PM)
Excellent question!
Here are some answers from the internet:
https://www.quora.com/Law-Is-it-possible-to-continue-to-practice-law-if-as-a-lawyer-you-have-been-convicted-of-a-felony
.
The long and short of it is this:
For what Vinny did, it's highly unlikely that he would ever get disbarred (in real life). (Remember that disbarment is tantamount to removing a person's source of livelihood and his ability to make a living.)
And of course, for plot purposes, disbarment is out of the question (for film-making and comedy story-telling purposes). -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(July 30, 2016 08:40 PM)
Lawyers are often found in contempt of court. It is a fine. Not a felony.
In this film, Vinny was indeed thrown in jail. Perhaps it was only for a night. I forget, as it has been a while since I saw the film. Maybe, Vinny was not able to come up with the money to pay off the fine, right away? Does anyone recall why Vinny was thrown in jail? -
HawkeyeDJ — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 07:02 AM)
Vinny was held in contempt by the judge and put in jail overnight. This is not a 'conviction' but rather a means by which the judge maintains control of his courtroom.
And a conviction does not automatically bar someone from practicing law. As someone else pointed out, to be disbarred is a big deal in most cases, therefore it is not taken lightly.
That said, someone does not have to be convicted of a crime to be disbarred (prohibited from practicing law - sometimes for life). Sometimes just egregious behavior in the courtroom is enough to get one disbarred.
You may recall that president Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives for lying under oath to a grand jury regarding the Monica Lewinsky affair. The senate failed to convict him and he finished out his term as president. Nevertheless, he was disbarred for a period of five years for his perjury. -
Movie_Buff_2 — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 08:53 AM)
Thank you all for the responses!!
My original question came from watching an ESPN film, "Fantastic Lies" (currently out on Netflix). This was the story from the Duke lacrosse team in 2006, where three were on trial for rape. For those who don't know this movie, the prosecuting attorney, Mike Nefong, was also running for a political office. Not to spoil for anybody, Mike N. was sentenced to one day in jail, and permanent disbarment. Although what Mike did was far more heinous than anything the character of "Vinny" ever did, including if he shot the owl. But, after watching Fantastic Lies, and then MCV, it got me to thinking, can a lawyer (in real life) practice law if they have a criminal record, and been to jail? Even if for one day.
But, I agree with the OP, disbarment does seem harsh, especially if you went to school for seven years.
And, for those who haven't seen "Fantastic Lies", I highly recommend it. It is definitely worth the two hours. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 11:54 AM)
My original question came from watching an ESPN film, "Fantastic Lies" (currently out on Netflix). This was the story from the Duke lacrosse team in 2006, where three were on trial for rape. For those who don't know this movie, the prosecuting attorney, Mike Nefong, was also running for a political office. Not to spoil for anybody, Mike N. was sentenced to one day in jail, and permanent disbarment. Although what Mike did was far more heinous than anything the character of "Vinny" ever did, including if he shot the owl. But, after watching Fantastic Lies, and then MCV, it got me to thinking, can a lawyer (in real life) practice law if they have a criminal record, and been to jail? Even if for one day.
There is a major distinction that you have not taken into account. There is a
huge
difference between a private lawyer (e.g., a defense lawyer like Vinny) versus a public lawyer working for the government (e.g., a district attorney like Mike Nifong).
The private lawyer is acting on his own (whether good or bad). The public lawyer is acting on behalf of all of us, of all the people, of the "official" government. That is a far more serious matter.
But, I agree with the OP, disbarment does seem harsh, especially if you went to school for seven years.
You
are the OP (the original poster of the original question). No? -
Movie_Buff_2 — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 12:24 PM)
Thank you Joseph, and yes, you are correct. It never entered my mind that there was / is a distinction between a private v public lawyer. The only difference in my mind was that one is a movie character v a real life attorney. I didn't know that there was a difference in real life.
I always thought that the acronym "OP" stood for "Other Poster", when referring to a comment made from someone else. I guess you learn something new everyday!!
But many thanks for the private / public distinction. To me, a lawyer is a lawyer, just a matter of their specialty. I'm going through a short sale of a property (I unfortunately bought in 2007, right before the crash), and I've never spoken with so many lawyers in my life. I have a foreclosure defense attorney, and he has to explain everything to me. It blows me away about how the law is written and structured, just for mortgages / writs. I can't even begin to imagine criminal law, and what one has to go through in that scenario. My takeaway from my situation is that there are several laws which need to be, either added or amended. Very mind boggling indeed. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 02:38 PM)
You're welcome.
(1) Yes, there is a big difference. When a private lawyer takes any action, he is doing that action of his own accord. When a public (government) lawyer takes any action, he is doing that "as a spokesman" for all of the people of his state (that is, he is representing the government of that state). So, that is a big deal. So, for example, when Mike Nifong did whatever he did, he was doing all of those (illegal) actions on behalf of the population of the state of North Carolina. He was conducting official government business. And doing so in an illegal manner.
(2) I always thought that "OP" referred to the "original poster". It may also refer to the "other poster", but I had never heard that before. Who knows? I am not the expert on internet slang and jargon.
(3) Yes, a lawyer is a lawyer is a lawyer. And they do have their specialties. The critical distinction here, really, is:
who is the client?
and,
who does the lawyer represent?
When you have a private lawyer, the client is simply the client. The lawyer represents that client. When you have a public (government) lawyer, the client is all of the people of that state. So, for example, Mike Nifong was representing as a client all of the millions of people who live in North Carolina. It's a very big deal. And he screwed up big time. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 11:48 AM)
You may recall that president Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives for lying under oath to a grand jury regarding the Monica Lewinsky affair. The senate failed to convict him and he finished out his term as president. Nevertheless, he was disbarred for a period of five years for his perjury.
I forget the details. Remind me. I thought that Clinton
voluntarily
gave up his law license? (Maybe as some form of a "plea deal"?) Was his loss of license voluntary or involuntary? Thanks. -
HawkeyeDJ — 9 years ago(August 01, 2016 06:15 PM)
I thought that Clinton voluntarily gave up his law license?
Being a former president, Clinton's loss of his right to practice law was a bit of a moot point. Technically, he 'voluntarily' surrendered his license as a means of putting the whole sordid affair behind him. Further, his license was suspended for only a period of five years, after which, with good behavior he could have had it reinstated, something he did not do. After the passage of fifteen years, he would be required to retake the bar exam if he wanted to resume practice.
So, yes, as part of a plea deal, he voluntarily surrendered his right to practice law, but as a practical matter he was in fact disbarred. The outcome was preordained.