Is Jane's birching based on historical fact?
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Helenlaurence — 10 years ago(November 29, 2015 04:13 AM)
The mother thing doesn't ring true to me somehow. Would he have even called his mother Jane?
I'm not saying he did scratch that in the wall- it could have been someone else entirely or a different Jane.
The whole thing is so sad I understand why people want to romanticise it, but it's doubtful they had a romantic relationship as depicted in the film. -
silver_randomocity — 18 years ago(March 31, 2008 05:20 AM)
"Where do you have that information from? In the tower of London where they were taken for execution, there's a turret where Guildford was held. Preserved in two places is Jane's name, which he scratched into the wall. Why would he do that if he wasn't in love with her?"
Umm, yeah, Guilford's mother was named Jane. Some historians think that
if
the carving was done by Guilford, it was done as him pining for the mother who spoilt him rotten (probably in hope of her finding a way for him to leave the tower and the mess his father got into). -
Leia5899 — 18 years ago(June 26, 2007 10:21 AM)
"I think that the main reason that she did not wish to marry Guildford was his selfish, childish behaviour. Apparently he had been spoilt excessively by his mother. Although the movie suggests that they eventually feel in love, this was never the case."
From what I have read, it was because she didn't trust the Dudley family, and rightfully so. Their actions also led to her beheading. -
IsoldeJaneHolland — 18 years ago(September 10, 2007 03:10 PM)
Jane's mother Frances Grey was both a loathsome and ridiculous woman
who two weeks afte she became a widow married her stable groom! Which
makes her trying to compel her daughter to accept a strategic marriage
even more contemptible. At least in this film she looks like she feels
a bit guilt-stricken at the end, after Jane's death.
There is a brand new (pub 2007) book about the whole Lady Jane debacle
containing a lot about her parents, and written by a well known Tudor
Historian Alison Weir : Innocent Traitor. It's historical fiction. -
paige1357 — 17 years ago(November 16, 2008 07:03 PM)
Firstly, many biographies on Jane are not entirely accurate (Chapman and Plowden's books use unusual sources that need to be questioned and they both are extremely biased and not indepth).
Which biographies can be trusted? -
little_miss_sunnydale — 17 years ago(November 17, 2008 03:26 AM)
Which biographies can be trusted?
Right now, there isnt much out there. However it seems that there will be some good works coming out sometime in the future. Eric Ives has written a biography on her life, which I think is out next year (definitely worth looking out for). Plus J. Stephan Edwards, who specialises in the life of Jane Grey, has also written a biography although there is yet a date for its release.
Incidentally Edwards has his own website and has listed numerous books relating to Jane. He has evaluated the usefulness and strength of each work:
http://www.somegreymatter.com/janegreybiblio.htm
He is also willing to answer questions, and his email address is provided on the website.
Noli me tangere; for Caesar's I am -
paige1357 — 15 years ago(May 07, 2010 04:02 PM)
Little_miss_sunnydale, I would like to buy Eric Ives's book on Jane, but I do not have much money at the time. I always love following your posts, and as you seem to have an unbiased view and know everything about this period, I would be curious in hearing your opinions on it before I buy it.
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marktayloruk — 17 years ago(December 04, 2008 07:57 AM)
I know Jane complained of being mistreated by her parents well before she married.It seemed she couldn't do anything right as far as they were concerned.In the film,her father comes across slightly better han her mother-among the nastiest screen bitches I've ever seen.Mary should have pardoned Jane in return or her publicly acknowledghing her as Queen-which she rightfully was-and executed both her parents.
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LadyKosha — 15 years ago(August 24, 2010 10:02 AM)
Afterall, we only have written accounts to go by.
You need an awful lot of documentation to match to get close to any facts about history.
What isn't fact is that Lady Jane Grey was a 16 year old kid when she was executed, and it was done for political and sectarian reasons.
Whether or not she wanted to take the throne, or wanted to spread Protestantism, or was a spoiled kid who didn't get on with her mother, we will never know. But she
was
a child, and in those days people had very little regard for the lives of kids.
"You stop me again whilst I'm walkin', I'll cut your f#kkin' jacobs off!!" -
louiseculmer — 10 years ago(July 17, 2015 06:47 PM)
It very likely is true. Although forced marriage was officially frowned on by the church, ambitious parents might try and push their children into an unwanted match. and jane's parents seem to have been very ambitious.
Sometimes children defied their parents though. For example, in the 15th century, the Pastons daughter Margery defied her parents wish for a good martiage for her, and although beaten by her furious mother to try and make her comply, insisted on marrying the family bailiff, richard Calle, which was considered a poor marriage (a bailiff was a servant, albeit a superior one). Since she had become bethrothed to him though, the church upheld her right to marry him (bethrothel was regarded as virtually as legally binding as marriage). With the church supporting Margery, her parents could do nothing about it.