Jason was always a "Zombie" *spoilers*
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TonyC4444 — 11 years ago(March 24, 2015 10:59 AM)
Well sure what you offered there in your last paragraph is a possibility. It's no different than my possibility though. After all corpses don't re-animate and start walking around again here in our universe either.
I take your point on Roy and Pamela though, hadn't even thought of that myself. Hmmmmm.maybe in these Universes when you kill someone you become stronger somehow lol.
By the way, I am right behind you. -
DrDanielChallis — 10 years ago(October 14, 2015 11:46 AM)
hey Tony, ease off the gas - you aren't the authority on the facts of the F13 franchise, and, even the people involved across the films can't sit there and explain all the errors and mixed messaging about Jason's alive/dead/undead status
it is up to the fans, the audience, the viewers, to decide how they like to enjoy their experience
all that said, as far as after the original is concerned (by the way, the original director and writer, including Savini and the actress, have all stated that Jason coming out of the lake was a dream sequence)
Part 2 film: Jason was alive, and saw his mother beheaded
Part 2 novelization: Jason covers his face because it is rotting and filled with maggots
see my point? there is no real clear cut answer given
and,
Part 3 - Jason has super-human strength and can take a hanging, and then
FC: Come back from an axe to the head, almost grayish-tinted skin and somewhat dead, but possibly still living looking with blackish fingernails? and then
He's buried and arises from the grave in Part 6 . . . but wait, wasn't he already undead to begin with?
again - see my point? You have to grounds to cement anything as clear cut fact other than what is shown to us throughout those films - and there is no clear point about his status - period. Move on already. -
TonyC4444 — 10 years ago(October 18, 2015 07:02 AM)
hey Tony, ease off the gas - you aren't the authority on the facts of the F13 franchise
This was a really douche thing to say. Like, seriously who says ease off the gas.
I offered my opinion and cited examples to support my position. That's what you're supposed to do when you have an opinion. Now maybe your opinion differs and that's fine, but don't come in here acting like a douche. The people who were creating this were just kind of going with the flow, my entire point was if you look at things that happened with in the film Jason is clearly a Zombie. And since we're talking about the films, and since you were being a douche, why would you cite from the novels? Nobody cares, we're talking about the movies.
By the way, I am right behind you. -
fyfytj — 10 years ago(October 18, 2015 12:45 AM)
Jason's attack at the end of the first movie was undoubtedly a dream. As far as the first movie is concerned, Jason is dead and died as a boy in 1957. The rippling in the lake as the very end could be Alice picturing the lake in her mind. The cop said "Maam, we didn't find any boy", and besides, why is he still a kid when he pops out of the water when he drowned over 20 years prior? Because that's the way Alice imagines him based on Mrs. Voorhees' story. Granted, she wouldn't have known that Jason was deformed, but I think the evidence for it being a dream outweighs that of it being a real event.
Aside from that, the evidence of Jason's supernatural resistance to injury and death is indeed present before he's officially a zombie in Part 6. But it's all based on the completely nonsensical idea that Jason somehow survived drowning as a boy and just decided to live in the woods without even going back to camp to find his mother, so if I can brush that off, I can brush off Jason's superhuman durability before his death in Part 4. -
luig29 — 10 years ago(October 18, 2015 07:11 PM)
I think that Jason at birth was a mongoloid mutant freak with crazy retard strength but not supernatural which is how he survived drowning and was able to survive other injuries he sustained until Tommy was able drive a machete straight through his skull into his brain causing catastrophic injury those injuries before that were not catastrophic.
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rikajessie — 10 years ago(October 30, 2015 09:53 AM)
It was originally intended that Jason did drown, but when they wanted to make a sequel and wanted to use Jason as the villain, they came up with the plot that Jason didn't really drown and lived in the woods all those years, as explained in part 2, and as Ginny says about Mrs. Voorhees, "what she thought happened", meaning that she thought he was dead when he wasn't, at least that's how I took it.
The actress that played Chris said that Jason was supposed to be dead after she struck him with the axe, but I guess they wanted another movie obviously, so they had to make it that he survived that wound. Yes, it's a stretch, but maybe we are supposed to think the wound didn't go deep enough because of the axe, or Jason had a very thick skull? lol
And Final Chapter was meant to be the last, and the writers of New Beginning didn't bring Jason back. Then Jason is shown in Part VI in his grave, and only because he got struck by lightning did he come back. After that, though, he's never shown to be dead, just trapped. So I do think the intention was that Jason died in Part 4 and the lightning turned him into an immortal.
But yes, it was always a big stretch to believe that Jason survived the drowning and raised himself. I like to think he was found by some weirdo who lived in the woods and taken care of by them, at least for a time. That would make more sense as to how he survived, and why he wouldn't return to Pamela or be seen, if he was sort of being held captive by someone.
As for Pamela's behavior in Part 1, I think this is all supposed to be her insanity. If we take it that Jason did survive, obviously Pamela just doesn't know it. She thinks he died because she has not seen him since he escaped the lake.
But I don't think these movies were ever all that realistic, and certainly not good with continuity after a while.
Some people thought it was unrealistic that Pamela could kill all those people being just a regular woman, I thought it wasn't unrealistic because she took them by surprise. But thinking more about it, I thought it was strange she could have the strength to pick up some of the characters, like how did she get Bill up on the door, how did she get Steve up in the tree, how did she get Ned up in the bunk (unless he had laid down on it and then she killed him)?
She's not a huge woman, it just seems strange to me that she could lift up these guys, lol.
Anyway, I think in the end it's up to the viewer to decide. I just don't like the idea of Jason being always supernatural in parts 2-4 because they didn't give an explanation for why he would be. For as lame as the explanation of him surviving the drowning might be, at least it is an explanation. And I don't like the explanation in Part 9 about Pamela using the necrinomicon or whatever, because if she'd resurrected him, I don't see why she'd be so angry still in Part 1. Some said it's because he didn't come back right, but still, if she had resurrected him, she'd have been so busy raising him that I don't think she'd have had time to obsess about the camp being reopened and doing all those things to keep it from being, and wouldn't be as obsessed with revenge. And since she was pouring out her soul to Alice, basically, about Jason, wouldn't she have mentioned that she resurrected him and he was evil? Since she planned to kill Alice and was telling her everything else, why not that?
Obviously that didn't happen because it wasn't intended for Jason to return when that movie was made, but yeah, I just don't like 9's explanation, or anything about it for that matter. -
Horror_Metal — 10 years ago(October 23, 2015 02:53 PM)
I agree that Jason was always an undead and also believe that he was resurrected as soon as his mother was killed in the first movie. Then his body aged over the next five years to catch up to how old he would have been had he not drowned in the lake. That's why he's much bigger in part 3 than he is in part 2, he's still growing.
Maybe a far fetched theory, but it sure beats the one in which he was alive and living in the woods for 20+ years without ever encountering anyone, including his own obsessed mother.
Horror_Metal -
rikajessie — 10 years ago(October 31, 2015 05:40 PM)
Well that would explain how Jason can take wounds that would kill anyone else in parts 2 and 3.
Like I said, I think it can be left up to the viewer. My sister thought he was always a zombie, but I like the idea that he wasn't up until part 6, just because I like a more reality based story. -
BigDDD — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 03:00 PM)
Don't forget Kid Jason also attacked that girl in part 8 during her flashback, he died when he drowned apparently lived under there for awhile, attacked the main character in part 8 in the water during a flashback, saw his mom die, got out and went living in the woods