A chopper like Airwolf could be created today
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Airwolf
mistertwistr — 18 years ago(June 07, 2007 06:59 AM)
A helicopter going supersonic speeeds could be created. After all for 100's of years it was said 'If man were meant to fly, he would have been given wings". That ideal was proved false on December 17th 1903 when the Wright Brothers created the airplane. Likewise people who think a helicopter could never acheive supersonic speeds would most likely be proven wrong at some point in the forseeable future.
The main problem of a helicopter going at supersonic speeds is the rotors,so theoretically speaking how do you get around it?
According to Greek Philosopher Socrates concerning how to achieve an equilibrium and along with Sir Issac Newton's laws of and pyshics of gravity; theoretically a supersonic helicopter could be created like this:
If the helicopter was going at say for the sake of argument; 769 M.P.H.( the speed of sound) and both rotors were revolving at exactly 769 M.P.H.( or however fast the actual helicopter is going) It would cause a "mechanical equilibrium", Which in laymen's terms if both rotors were going at the exact same speed of the helicopter itself the pressure would be balanced out. So the rotors would be working with and not against the flow of air. Of course much like the show the helicopter would have to have a jet based engine to get it at that intial speed. Of course you could also have the rotors bend mechanically or flexibly into a V like wing shape while it's traveling at supersonic speeds to temporarily act like a wing.
Of course a helicopter can only climb so high, let alone 30,000 feet like a jet. Which in that case the air up there would be too thin for the rotors to work and the pressure around them would be greatly reduced when going supersonic from a jet based engine.
Also a newly created alloy structure called "bucky tube" which is basically a carbon based alloy structure reinforced atom by atom to create a material stronger and lighter in weight then steel. The rotors of a helicopter being created out of this material would be able to withstand tremendous amounts of force for supersonic speeds, in addition to making the helicopter itself heavily armored/bulletproof like the show and remain light weight.
Another problem is on the show Hawke mentions in one of the episodes that Airwolf apparently has ejection seats, which as far as I know they're isn't any (U.S. anyway) helicopters with this due to the obvious and potential suicidal risks of the rotors above. So obviously a new ejection seat method would have to be applied here. The simplest solution seems to be to have the rotors blow apart once the "eject" button is pressed followed by a 10 to 15 second delay so the rotors would safely be out of the way and the pilot(s) could be ejected out of the helicopter.The pilot(s) also would most likely still have to wear a typical jet flight suit and helmet, whether the cabin is pressurized or not.
So with all those facts in mind your Airwolf( supersonic) helicopter would most likely have a wing span and actual landing gears,to reduce resistance and be more aerodynamic, like the Bell models. As opossed to the typical helicopter which has no wing span and has skids as opossed to landing gears.
Size wise it'd most likely be about as a big as a typical jet due to space needed to carry roughly 20,000 pounds of fuel (that's roughly the same amount of fuel needed for the U.S. made F-14 Tomcat). As well as space for all the rounds of ammunition and missles.
So realistically speaking a supersonic helicopter like Airwolf could be created today the only reason keeping it from becoming a reality is due to the obvious billions upon billions of dollars for the research and development of the such a helicopter. Aviation engineers would have essentially be funded by someone like bill Gates or Ted turner or impress the U.S. Military so that the U.S.A.F. would give you the funds needed to build a supersonic helicopter.
There above are your answers in creating Airwolf. So in reality Airwolf could be created today. It's just the Billons of dollars price tag that is keeping Airwolf from becoming a reality. So as fans of the show what are your thoughts on this? -
mistertwistr — 18 years ago(June 11, 2007 06:39 AM)
Then again with the U.S. government spending $50,000 a piece on cruise missiles and 2.5 billion per stealth bomber, hey it's not like our government to misuse money.(I know old joke)
In the case of(price wise) building an Airwolf like helicopter you could argue that you'd have a helicopter with all the abilities of such, in addition to being invisible to radar ( stealth). As well The ability to provide vertical take off and be theoretically more maneuverable then a jet, even a Harrier. That and in this case you'd have a helicopter that could actually engage in a "dog fight" with an enemy jet fighter. Theoretically billions spent to save billions in the long run.
Aviation engineers could say that they have "a helicopter/jet and stealth bomber all in one package." as an intial sales pitch to "possibly" gain interest for the U.S. military to fund it. -
roger-skagerstrom — 18 years ago(June 19, 2007 04:39 PM)
But If the rotor and the helicopter is rotating/traveling in the same speed.. Let's say you fly in 500 mph, and the tip of the rotor spins at 500mph And lets say the rotor is spinning clockwise. From 12 aclock to 6 aclock the rotorblades edge will, relativly to the ground - stay still. While the blade in the 6 aclock to 12 radius will travel in 1000mph. Giving you enourmous amounts of lift on one side and non on one side. Kaboom. I'm not knowlageable in aircraft tech but musn't the blades in any given position on a helicopter spin faster the actual machine is going thru the air?
This is solved by using counter rotating main rotors like the Kamov, but that is a very "tall" configuration and I wonder if there is any material available to make axels, rotorheads etc. that can take the pressure. Imagine the drag!! -
mistertwistr — 18 years ago(June 21, 2007 09:21 AM)
On the subject of The Russian made Kamov Ka-50( A.K.A. BLACK SHARK) Which has some interesting features such as: (Taken from Wikipedia on the KA-50)
It is the "World's First and Only" single seat attack helicopter, the first "coaxial rotor" attack helicopter, and the first attack helicopter with "zero-zero ejection seat"
So in response to your question involving the pressure of the rotors. A "Co-axial rotor system", removes the need for the entire tail-rotor assembly and improves the aircraft's aerobatic qualities it can perform loops, rolls, and the funnel where the aircraft maintains a line-of-sight to target while flying circles of varying altitude, elevation, and airspeed around it. Using two rotors means that a smaller rotor with slower moving rotor tips can be used compared to a single rotor design. Since the speed of the advancing rotor tip is a primary limitation to the maximum speed of a helicopter, this allows a faster maximum speed than helicopters such as the AH-64. The elimination of the tail rotor is a qualitative advantage because the torque-countering tail rotor can waste up to 30% of engine power. (To begin with, Black Shark's Klimovs offer more shaft horsepower, some 2200 shp apiece, than e.g. Apache's General Electric turboshafts, at 1890 shp, which contributes to the superb performance.) Furthermore, the vulnerable boom and rear gearbox are fairly common causes of helicopter losses in combat (as proven in Vietnam); the Black Shark's entire transmission presents a comparatively small target to ground fire. Kamov maintains that the co-axial drive assembly is built to survive hits from 23mm ammunition like the other vital parts of the helicopter. The zero native torque also allows the aircraft to be fairly immune to wind strength and direction, and to have an unsurpassed turn rate in all travel speed envelopes.
The Co-Axial Rotor system of the RA-50 makes supersonic flight even more theorheticaly possible by establishing an equilibrium, as well as providing an answer to a helicopter with an ejection seat.
As far as material that can take that or any other kind of pressure, yes their is:
It's a newly created alloy called "BUCKEY TUBE" ( feel free to look it up) It's basically a carbon based material reinforced atom by atom to create a material stronger, lighter and more flexable/bendable then steel. Their's the material needed to create the axels, rotorheads,blades and overall body of the helicopter, to create a supersonic heavily armored chopper like Airwolf. Of course Bucky tube and carbon nanotube technology in general is new and at this point in time very expensive, but in the forseeable future it most likely will be more commonly used, not to mention cheaper.
Another thing about Airwolf I feel compelled to mention is it's apparent "stealth capabilities. Which in the show, Airwolf having "Stealth Capabilities" or a "Stealth mode" well, that's probably the one "Sci-Fi idea" of Airwolf that they did state as correct.
Many people think that "stealth" makes an aircraft invisible to radar, the truth is their is no such thing as an aircraft that's completly invisible to radar. Their are numerous tricks to avoid being detected. Such as:
Corner reflector, Planform alignment and numerous other "tricks" like flying below the inital wavelength and more drastic measures such as radar jamming and ECMS.
Like I mentioned before A chopper like Airwolf could be created today it's just the billions upon billions of dollars price tag keeping it from being a reality. -
TheHambers — 18 years ago(July 03, 2007 10:50 AM)
"Size wise it'd most likely be about as a big as a typical jet due to space needed to carry roughly 20,000 pounds of fuel (that's roughly the same amount of fuel needed for the U.S. made F-14 Tomcat). As well as space for all the rounds of ammunition and missles."
You know, you might as well build a jet if the helo is going to be like that.
And have you considered retreating blade stall? always been a big problem apparently. -
davedavidl — 13 years ago(September 08, 2012 05:18 AM)
You also forget that Airwolf travels at super speeds because of jet thrusters, a version of KITT's Turboboost.
It has long been understood and known that with sufficient forward thrust, wings/ailerons/elevators are not necessary.
To me, that makes sense that Airwolf would "disengage the rotors" when hitting the turbos, because to stay in the air they only need that forward thrust to overcome the resistance of gravity.
I believe it IS possible to develop a super-fast attack helicopter. -
Aberdeenfortheolympics — 18 years ago(July 07, 2007 05:10 PM)
Do you understand rotor dynamics, rotor blades at their tips can be moving at supersonic speeds but that is purely a by product of keeping enough rotations to enable lift. To move at supersonic speeds you would need to attach a jet engine to the chopper to enable that kind of speed as a rotor head simply cannot create enough forward speed to do this. Problem is once you strap a jet engine to a chopper you need to make the rotor passive so it isn't creating drag and then it isn't causing lift which is it's primary purpose as the rotor is the wing on a helicopter, so you disable the rotor from moving or allow it to autorotate but you still need a surface to create lift or your jet will fire a big object into the ground, so you stick wings on hey presto you don't need your rotor head because you have a plane.
http://www.jefflewis.net/rotorcraft_limitations.html
Thats a good article read it and it explains why airwolf won't work and doesn't exist and isn't being developed.
Frieden durch berlegene Feuerkraft -
darkavenger77 — 9 years ago(June 10, 2016 04:34 PM)
Also in a lot of episodes I have seen airwolf fire an amazing amount of ammunition. How can a helicopter hold all that?
I've added a goof to the main page for the show in that regard. They talk of firing several different missiles such as Mavericks, Hellfires, and Harpoons. All of these cannot be fired through a small tube that was shown being used to fire them. Harpoons for example are over a foot in diameter.
That's as plausible as small "turbo" afterburners making a 150 MPH helicopter supersonic, or one with a 370 mile range being able to fly thousands of miles w/o refueling.
Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters -
lvcambot-2 — 16 years ago(September 07, 2009 11:13 PM)
If you read "The Ultimate Time Machine" by Psychic Spy 001 Joe McMoneagle. He predicts that they WILL create an "AirWolf" style helicopter. The rotors will be able to stop mid flight.
FYI and all that.
GENE
Joss Wheadon! Sleeping in the parking lot for a year doesn't count as an Oscar win for "Toy Story! -
nk44ab — 16 years ago(September 17, 2009 09:05 AM)
It's not simply the supersonic flight idea that made Airwolf unique. It was loaded with high-tech surveillence gear and firepower. The entire body was armor plated and the air intakes had armored mesh shields which I assume meant it could withstand various storms. It's interesting to think that in the pilot episode the FIRM originally wanted to the Department of Defense to have Airwolf and take credit for it.
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RParmly-3 — 15 years ago(November 07, 2010 05:13 PM)
I don't remember much about how this works, but long long ago in a science magazine, I saw a model of what could theoretically be a "supersonic helicopter" type of aircraft. Looks basically like an airplane; the wings are one, long, straight single piece on top of the fuselage, and they act as a rotor for take-off and landing, then lock into place and turn the thing into a regular aircraft when it's in the air.
I don't know if this has ever been seriously studied, but it looked like an interesting concept.
I love it when a plan comes together. -
graham-167 — 15 years ago(January 27, 2011 04:14 AM)
According to the pilot episode, Airwolf is a lifting body; that is, above a certain speed the shape of the body is such that it generates enough lift to keep the copter up in the air. That's the point of firing those jet engines; the rotors are disengaged and allowed to spin freely, generating no lift, because at high speed the body does that.
A true lifting body wouldn't look anything like Airwolf (here is an example of one : http://area51specialprojects.com/images/m2-f1.jpg) but it's pretty cool that the writers actually seem to have done the research on why a helicopter couldn't do supersonic speeds, AND come up with a plausible explanation for why Airwolf could.
Unfortunately in the series they simplified all that to "turbine boost = fast" and left it at that.
