'Yentl' is why I ignore the Oscars
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Yentl
trob226 — 16 years ago(March 07, 2010 06:48 AM)
Snubbing Streisand made it painfully obvious the Oscars are totally political, and if you don't play the Hollywood politics, you don't even make the list of nominees. Very, very good films, actors and performances have been ignored over the years (take this year, Stephen Lang earned a supporting nom twice, but he's not a Hollywood politician, so he's ignored). I haven't watched in years, and I won't watch tonight either. Not that the Oscar people care I won't watch, because I'm no Hollywood politician either.
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gbennett5 — 15 years ago(April 25, 2010 11:15 PM)
I am a longtime Streisand fan, but have a very hard time with complaints
about "Yentl" being "snubbed." This was Streisand's very first film
and despite a 16 million dollar budget, a superb cinemaphotographer,
excellent production design and a gifted cast, the film still plays like
a movie directed by a novice. Because it was.
When the film was originally released, the reviews were mixed. Gene
Siskel, for instance, discussed the fact that there were too many
close-ups. One female critic noted "I liked it - but I didn't love it."
There were raves, of course. "Barbra Streisand gives 'Yentl' a heart
that sings and a spirit that soars." The results were pretty much
split in half. Of course, Streisand had her detractors. And, of course,
there was the Barbra-can-do-no-wrong crowd. Streisand claimed, "It's
mostly women who are attacking me." I didn't see that, and I read
countless reviews when the film came out. As for the reference books,
including the highly respected tome by critic Leonard Maltin, they
usually give "Yentl" two and a half starsmeaning fair. And that's what
the film is to most people. I, too, decry people who unfairly attack
the film, but the truth is, this is not a perfect film. And if we are
to subscribe to the highest ethics of the Oscars, frankly, I don't think
the film deserved major Oscar nods. Do I think some of this was
snubbing? Most definitely. But no matter how great a film is, people
in the biz will work against its campaign. Streisand used "sexism"
as her major argument in why she was left out. I find this ridiculous,
as she is equally detested in the industry by both females and males.
And she has been a champion many times, evening being nominated - and
WINNING - Best Song for "Evergreen" at a time when her press was at its
most tempestuous. Streisand was never more attacked than during
1976 and '77. But she still wonand for a top-40 radio song that isn't
all that great, despite it's played-at-weddings durability.
I own a copy of the DVD of "Yentl." Because I love film, love Streisand,
and remain blown away at the love and care put into the film. But she
simply did not create great cinema here. The film is ueven in its
comedy, turning absolutely ridiculous when Yentl sings "Tomorrow Night."
It becomes nothing short of high camp. It also boasts a lumpy screenplay,
way too many songs, and Streisand made the mistake of being in EVERY
SCENE. (outtakes are inclued in the DVD. Several scenes with Hadass
were dropped, including one with her mother. Thanks to choices like this,
Hadass is so underdeveloped and remains a one-demensional character as
a result. Sure, Irving received (an undeserved) Oscar nod. She also
received (an equally undeserved) Razzie nod).
One thing that so many people forget is that far more gifted directors
than Streisand (Hitchcock, Vincente Minnelli, John Ford, George Stevens)
didn't receive Oscar nods for THEIR first pictures. Why? Because they
were still learning their crafts, honing their techniques, growing as
visionaries. Just because Streisand was already a star and had been in
pictures, and was working with millions of dollars at her disposal,
doesn't make her any more deserving. Lavish though it is, one clearly
sees a beginner at the helm in many scenes.
I came on this board tonight, as I just finished watching "Yentl." The
early scenes are the best and most beautifully realized. But in the
second half, the piece becomes more and more ridiculous and hard to
buy (how, for instance, would Hadass' parents go to such trouble to find
out Avigdor wasn't suitable for marriage to their daughter, but NOT
check out Anchel, who was so obviously a woman anyway?!). Even Avigdor
could've benefited from a tad more character development, but the cost
would've been Streisand not in every scene - something she, apparently,
was unwilling to do).
The end result is a picture that is heartfelt, beautifully filmed, but
also sloppily constructed and eternally hollow. All I end up seeing
is Streisand the director, not Yentl the character. And for this, I'm
moved by Streisand's courage. But not the movie itself. -
gbennett5 — 15 years ago(April 26, 2010 05:15 PM)
Sorry, I didn't care for that film either. HOWEVER, I do believe it was
technically more secure than "Yentl", more fully realized and possessed
more scope. I also feel it possessed an eternally dopey score and other
problems. But I'll say this: While I don't feel the film deserved
major Oscar nods, I DO believe it was snubbing in its truest form to
go ahead and nominate it for Best Picture, but NOT nominate the director.
Ridiculous. -
smoko — 15 years ago(May 09, 2010 08:46 PM)
But, to me Streisand should have gotten nominated for The Prince of Tides. That movie was prefect and she wasn't even in half of the movie. Or maybe she was, but that's it. Yes, her name was second on the posters, but Nolte was the one and only lead in that movie!
She wasn't even in half of the movie; Nolte was the one and only lead. Aren't you then making the case that she
shouldn't
have gotten nominated? -
smoko — 15 years ago(May 10, 2010 04:53 AM)
Oh, as director, now I understand.
Yes, if someone acts in and directs the same (worthy) film, they do usually end up with at least a nomination. Off the top of my head:
Mel Gibson - Braveheart
Warren Beatty - Reds
Kevin Costner - Dances with Wolves
Clint Eastwood - Unforgiven
George Clooney Good Night, and Good Luck
I'm sure there are plenty of others.
Maybe if Streisand really was a boy she would have gotten a director nom. -
InherentlyYours — 9 years ago(October 18, 2016 03:02 PM)
Nope, she should have gotten a nomination as director!! And getting nominated as a director has nothing to do with her minutes on screen.
Not being nominated for Best Director while the films receives a nomination is not rare. (and the reverse) Only because it's Streisand do we question it. And I never saw one review give it more than 3 1/2 stars, likely because Streisand mis-cast herself. -
JoeStracke — 14 years ago(April 13, 2011 03:16 AM)
I cannot honestly conceive any viable use of both 'Leonard Maltin' and 'highly respected' in the same film-related sentence.
A few more that wank gave two-and-a-half stars to are:
The Shawshank Redemption, The Princess Bride
and
Laserblast
clearly, this is a man without a clue, and one who should be utterly ignored by any fans of film. -
CinemaDude1 — 13 years ago(April 17, 2012 01:05 AM)
Joe, THANK YOU this guy is all over the place ranks top notch films on the bottom and doesnt understand that low comedy can be wildly entertaining. He teeters on snobbism.
I just revisited YENTL a second time and must say, I found it much more of an engrossing, powerful film than the first time I "saw" it when it came out. Back then I was up in a projection booth running the film, which is not exactly "watching" it, er, film you know, the stuff that used to run thru a motion picture projector. Back then I never got the complexity or the emotional power of it. All I was thinking at the time was how incredibly savvy and dedicated to quality Striesand was because she ordered a run of 35mm prints with 4 track magnetic sound for theatres that still had that superior sound playback system it hadn't been used for a number of years due to cost to produce those prints. Thing is, 4 track mag is much better than the matrixed optical sound that was all the rage at the time (because it was cheaper to produce). Magnetic sound gives (gave) four discrete channels of high fidelity sound with no bleed between channels as does matrixed, optical sound. The sound in the theatre for YENTL was awesome. So even on a technical level the woman demanded quality. I say hats off to her.
Fine you say, but what about the film itself is it great? Not quite, but what do you want from a film.does it have to be a CITIZEN KANE to be enjoyable? I sat watching YENTL with a room full of people and grown men sat there after the closing frames too embarrassed to turn around because they were visibly emotional. And BTW, I HATE sloppy sentimentalism, that was not what Striesand was about with this and I promise you, I am particularly critical of maudlin, gooey films, but she was able to connect with core feelings that connect with a broad spectrum of viewers, no small task and the stuff a really good film is made of.
Then of course there was lots of talk in the room afterward about the touchy issue of a Hassidim young man falling in love with what he seems to realize, at least on some level, is his best buddy, or as they say on craigslist "M4M," and then he seems to be saying, "So be it." Not exactly what makes very orthodox Jews jump for joy. Anyone know if there was ever any protests about this particular aspect of the film? Seems like if all of us goyum at this screening saw it, the Jewish community would have too, no?
Thing is, I am not a Streisand fan, so I think I can judge this film fairly objectively, unlike those rabid Streisand haters and the gushing Streisand minions and so I give it what I consider a very objective 7.5 not to shabby a film and one I am definitely adding to my DVD library. -
gbennett5 — 13 years ago(January 14, 2013 11:21 AM)
Sorry, I disagree. He doesn't play into hyperbole, and just because a
film is large, Oscar-clad and modern, he doesn't get caught up in the
tasteless fuss. He calls it for what it is, and he is usually dead-on. -
sirjeremy — 12 years ago(May 19, 2013 02:55 PM)
Yeah, I agree with you, gbennett. I see that the RT score for
Yentl
is 73%: good but not great. Her chances were always a bit iffy that year, regardless of the huge push MGM gave it and her in the media for months back then. The film was a moderate hit but not a big one and I think Babs is being at best disingenuous with this comment in spring 1984: "In Hollywood, a woman can be an actress, a singer, a dancer - but don't let her be too much more".
But I do feel she deserved a nod for directing
The Prince of Tides
and her snub that year was erroneous. God, her fellow directors at the D.G.A even nominated her. -
rascal67 — 12 years ago(May 21, 2013 07:24 PM)
@gbennet, your post is eloquently and perceptively put.
'Yentl', sits at middle of the road for me as is neither awful or something that could have been wonderfulwhich it certainly had the potential to become. It was an ambitious and heartfelt attempt by Streisand and if it was to have received a major Oscar
nomination, I would say she was more deserving of an acting nod rather than a directing one.
1983 was a strong year for leading ladies and she fell through the cracks, where as most films sat middle of the road for this year and possibly; had it been released a year later in 1984 she may have gotten more notice for her performance. I doubt that she would have been given a director nod though. Streisand's attitude of self entitlement and narcissism, just because she is Streisand and thinks she deserves it, justifies the snub.
She did a moderate to better job on 'Prince Of Tides'. For those of us that have read this sprawling tale and loved it, it could have made an exceptional and better film than what she gave us. She either should have just directed it or starred in it..not both. I can understand the BP nomination it was honored with, but also the director snub. For me, 'Mirror Has Two Faces' is her best directing effort and of the 3 films the least ambitious story wise, yet the most proficient and entertaining. -
LaurieMann — 15 years ago(March 02, 2011 05:55 PM)
I hadn't watched the movie in a very long time. Yentl was moderately enjoyable, and the Mandy Patinkin performance was terrific. Considering it was Streisand's first movie as a director, it was pretty good (a few too many close-ups, and the music, while it was Oscar-winning, was too repetitive). It wasn't a terrible miscarriage of justice for the movie to not have been nominated for the Best Picture Oscar.
Remember here were the other movies nominated for the Best Picture Oscar that year:
Terms of Endearment (which won)
The Big Chill
The Dresser (a small movie that's mostly forgotten now but it has two excellent performances)
The Right Stuff (which SHOULD have won)
Tender Mercies (Duvall at his finest)
I think Streisand grew a little as a director with each of her movies. While Yentl was a little more ambitious than the other two, The Mirror Has Two Faces and Prince of Tides were both better.
Laurie Mann
Pittsburgh Flicks - Movie-making in the 'Burgh
http://www.pghflicks.com/ -
VirginOnPromNight — 15 years ago(March 27, 2011 06:20 PM)
this is all YOUR opinion.. you think the oscars are a joke because Yentl was ''snubbed'' ? just say 'in my opinion' before every stupid comment you make. this movie shouldnt have even been made. such a dreadful turd, this movie.