Merlin vs Gandalf
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Excalibur
obin_gam — 17 years ago(February 28, 2009 09:23 AM)
Okay, while wathcing this 2+hour epic a thought occured to me - who would win in a battle between the two coolest mages ever?
Merlin or Gandalf? And WHY!?!?!
My vote would be on Merlin, cause he can change into a fish, bird or squirrel if Gandalf attempts something ^^
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sLaughter is the best medicine -
dlbearcave-2 — 17 years ago(March 06, 2009 05:46 PM)
Gandalf battled a Balrog until both of them died, yet he came back and led the fight against Sauron. Gandalf heavily FTW.
Incidentally, Excalibur is a wonderful movie and Nicol Williamson's portrayal of Merlin is the best. But Gandalf is the bad-ass. -
eqgmrdbz — 17 years ago(March 06, 2009 10:56 PM)
Well i think Gandolf would win, and im base'ing this on the fact that in the Excalibur movie (if thats what we are base'ing merlin on), Merlin never really got into a scuffle, yeah got into some stuff with morgana but nothing big, he kinda played from the outside, like an advisor, mentor, teacher kinda. If you look at Gandolf, He took on a Balrog and fought it to his death, and as a resurrected white mage well, i can say he doesnt fear death anymore and it seams like he really likes to hit people with his staff, Alott!
So I think gandolf would be more into the fighting spirit whereas Merlin seems like a docile mage. And i don't mean fistacuffs .i think Gandolf's fireball would be much bigger (couse of the whole fighting spirit thing) than Merlin's. -
pol-edra — 17 years ago(March 07, 2009 07:29 AM)
Then again, if I go with the OP's statement about Merlin's abilities, I guess we must take into account more than just this movie. Changing into a fish etc is more in keeping with his character in The Sword in the Stone (both novel and Disney adaptation). So if we add to Merlin's powers his ability to foresee the future, for example, something which is demonstrated numerous times in the medieval texts, I'd say it would be hard for Gandalf to beat him. How do you beat a guy who knows your next move before you even do?
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pfalkyk — 17 years ago(March 13, 2009 10:39 AM)
gandalf would just win over merlin, but it would be close. personally, i think both would see through your ruse of pitting them afainst each other & then turn their combined sorcery against yourself (in the words on MP's king arthur, "RUN AWAY!!!") but even combined, merlin & gandalf would fall & fall hard to Pug (with or without Tomas; raymond feist's riftwar saga. read it before you die)
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coxm-1 — 16 years ago(September 17, 2009 12:30 PM)
"gandalf would just win over merlin, but it would be close. personally, i think both would see through your ruse of pitting them afainst each other & then turn their combined sorcery against yourself (in the words on MP's king arthur, "RUN AWAY!!!") but even combined, merlin & gandalf would fall & fall hard to Pug (with or without Tomas; raymond feist's riftwar saga. read it before you die)"
Yeah, I think Gandalf would look at Merlin and say "Do you want to smoke some Hobbit weed?" Merlin would nod "yes" and pull out his pipe. The two would go sit someplace out of the way and blow smoke rings. In a little while, Merlin would say "I think Albus (Dumbledore) is coming by later this afternoon. We should save some weed for him." -
kobuster — 17 years ago(March 18, 2009 02:30 AM)
LotR is a story told from the viewpoint of hobbits and humans and elves and dwarves, but when all is said and done it is really about the battle between Gandalf and Sauron. Sauron's strengths were deception and treachery, which for example enabled him to cause Denethor to despair and Saruman to turn to evil. Gandalf's strength is partly his ability to inspire, but mostly his vast, supernatural level of wisdom. Gandalf was never outfoxed by Sauron, but Sauron was defeated by Gandalf's sneaky plan of sending hobbit ninjas into Mordor to destroy the ring.
So, basically, they would never fight. Gandalf would find a way to resolve their differences before it came to that.
(But Nicol Williamson's Merlin is so much the more entertaining movie character. I love this movie to death.) -
ferus1920 — 17 years ago(March 24, 2009 12:30 AM)
Merlin may be able to tap into the powers of the dragon, but Gandalf is a demigod, he has all of his own powers. In a no-holds-bared match up there is no chance of Merlin winning. I think Gandalf would still win though, even whith his powers being limited.
"Careful planning is the key to safe and swift travel." - Ulysses -
MoneyMagnet — 16 years ago(April 22, 2009 05:54 PM)
As wizards and as film characters, Merlin kicks Gandalf's ass.
Merlin is just a way more interesting wizard than Gandalf: funny, scary, isolated, lonely, world-weary, cynical, "not a man, not a god" and plus he lusts for Morgana.
Gandalf is just an old dude who fights Balrogs and hangs around with hobbits. Never tempted by anything. -
pol-edra — 16 years ago(August 17, 2009 12:27 AM)
That's really a very narrow way of looking at Tolkien's work. Gandalf's not 100% Merlin just because he reminds us of Merlin. Just because modern readers know very little about Odin (not that they know much about Merlin) doesn't mean they shouldn't look carefully into Tolkien's work and Tolkien's sources before claiming his characters and themes are simply this, or that.
What exactly makes you think Gandalf and Merlin are "the same person"? The fact that they're both old men with long beards and pointy hats? Pray point me one Arthurian source that describes Merlin as such. There isn't any! That "typical wizard" image does not come from Merlin, at least not in a straightforward way, and especially not at the time Tolkien was creating Middle Earth.
The fact that they both stand at the side of the hero/king along the quest? Except Merlin disappears from the story a long time before the Quest actually begins, never to come back. And who would be Gandalf's "Arthur", so to speak? Frodo? Aragorn? There are arguments for and against either one, which tends to show that there is precisely no typical Arthur-Merlin relationship in LOTR.
What about Nimue, Merlin's great love story, the woman who is his pupil and who enchants and dooms him? It is one of the most important Merlininan motifs. And yet I don't remember Gandalf falling for any skirt.
Of course there are Merlinian influences in Gandalf if we want to see them. But saying they're the same characters is just too restrictive. I might as well say Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker are the same. Hey, wait a minute
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