Rancher character gay?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Missouri Breaks
mr6708 — 18 years ago(May 03, 2007 10:14 PM)
I know these "gay character?" questions tend to seem superficial and tedious, one of the 1st user comments refers to McLiam's rancher as gay. I saw no evidence of this, but maybe I missed something. I was so busy being startled by most of the action and dialogue at my 1st viewing, maybe someone caught something I missed. Do you know what it was? Thanks
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wskrispy-1 — 18 years ago(May 30, 2007 01:08 AM)
Didn't you notice at the end, when the Jack Nicholson character came to kill the old guy, that he was being a little too feelingly protected by that Vern guy? Vern said something like "You may as well shoot me too cuz he's all I got." The two were lovers. There were a few other reasons to think so. They add up to certainty.
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scockery — 18 years ago(January 10, 2008 06:24 AM)
Could be gay, but it could be that Vern had no one, no family, etc, and Braxton was literally all he had. What's an old coot to do with no employer and no family? Imagine Alfred sans Batman/Bruce Waynewhat would old Alfred do?
Clayton's comments about ranchers, sheriffs and such can never keep their women. Of course, does that means Clayton thinks they are all gayI doubt it. He was trying to get under Braxton's skin, though. Whether that was to imply Braxton was inadequate as a husband or that he was gayI don't know. -
jkerr8 — 17 years ago(March 22, 2009 07:58 PM)
I'm not gay. As I watched the scene with Vern and the rancher, it struck me that Vern and he were lovers. I believe that homophobic bigots try to insult "gay" at every opportunity. It's an attempt at self-empowerment.
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le_chiffre-1 — 15 years ago(April 08, 2010 09:00 PM)
"I believe gay people try to find 'gay' in every closet they look. It's an attempt to feel 'normal'."
Couldn't agree with you more. Question is, what entitles them to be looking through people's closets in the first place?
To think there used to be a time when keeping one's sex life private was considered proper -
Kolobos51 — 16 years ago(September 06, 2009 08:02 PM)
I agree. Vern was "simple" and totally dependent on his boss. If anything, I'd say that the rancher had a thing for his daughter, because of how jealous he got about her relationship with Tom.
I'm not surprised there's so much violence in this country. I'm surprised there's so little. -
MovieMan1975 — 16 years ago(March 26, 2010 12:05 AM)
not at all.
Vern was just a simple minded pauper. if Braxton died he had nowhere to go, nothing to do.
Vern most likely spent most of his life in service to Braxton and felt the attachement as a devoted family member.
Just like in the Civil War. you'd think the slaves would leave at the first chance, but when the Union attacked, instead of escaping to freedom, alot of slaves stayed with their southern families, or "masters". They might have been slaves, but after spending a lifetime in devoted servitude, they simply could not leave and felt an attachement, which today seems bizarre to us, but makes sense in context.
Vern was the same.
There is no homo subtext here to be found. Thats just silly. -
IceboxMovies — 13 years ago(July 27, 2012 12:39 AM)
Yes, I got the impression that Braxton and Vern were both lovers. it's not explicitly stated, but I detected it from:
a) Braxton's catty manner of dismissing Vern from the room during key moments
b) Lee Clayton asking where Braxton's wife is, and Braxton getting defensive and telling him not to inquire about his private life (and Clayton musing about how "mental wizards" never seem to be able to hold their women)
c) Vern's touchy-feely defense of Braxton
Also, why does their homosexuality come as a surprise to some of you in this thread? For Christ's sake, it's an Arthur Penn film! ARTHUR PENN! The guy always tried to be subversive within each genre he worked.
So why would it come as such a shock if he wanted to tear down the Western myth with homosexuality thrown into the mix? It didn't surprise me in the least. What, are some of you so macho you can't stand the idea that some American men were gay back in those days?
"What I don't understand is how we're going to stay alive this winter." -
lorenzb-2 — 13 years ago(November 26, 2012 05:07 PM)
I can't say for sure if Braxton and Vern were gay lovers. Perhaps Vern was just a devoted servent and "loved" Braxton for the home and purpose he gave him. When Logan came to kill Braxton, Vern tried to persuade him not to. But his true motivation? Who knows? It seemed more likely to me that Braxton had a sick attachment to his daughter Jane. The fact that Logan was a criminal didn't do him any good in Braxton's eyes, but Braxton would have strongly objected to Jane becoming attached to ANY other man but him. He was a control freak who wanted to keep her there for himself forever, in whatever context he could. Besides that he seemed to be asexual. The type that's highly moralistic, because they themselves are incapable of sexual passion and therefore don't want anyone else to. All the characters are deeply ambigous and conflicted, just as real people are. And the story itself is also conflicted, just like the real world. There are no real heroes here, but how often is life that black and white? Not very. But it is great story telling, because it forces everyone who sees it to interpret it through the lens of their own moraliy, and draw their own conclusions about what it all means. Even Clayton, as sick and homicidal was he was, was not completely devoid of values. His values didn't really redeem him in any sense, but he did have a strong, if misguided, sense of "justice". He did only kill criminals after all. But again, what was his true motivation? We must all draw our own conclusions. Me personally, I think he hated criminals and felt it was his duty to punish them. And oh, by the way, his greatest pleasure in life was the thrill of killing itself. The classic definition of a psychopath. He too seemed to be asexual, because he was incapable of relating to any other human being except in a completely negative way. And notice even when he was taunting someone, he did it with a venire of politeness. In other words he was patronizing and condecending to everyone. Truly a man that wanted and needed no one else. At least he acted that way.
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SealedCargo — 6 years ago(November 19, 2019 11:12 AM)
i think movie's show that big businessmen are always not able to satisfy women so that the anti heroes can have something the rich people don't. the dirty little secret is that millionaires have great sex too most of the time LOL.
i don't think he's gay, I think he's not really great in bed, hence his frustration that he takes out on rustlers.
by the way, most people didn't take kindly to rustlers back in this era, and horse thieves did get hung.
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