So what happened to the confessed killers? Spoilers abound.
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Ellery Queen
ghostfan — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 11:55 AM)
I saw this on the Columbo board a while back, and thought I would try it here: Back in 1946-47 I think the law was harder-more black and white about murder, but I've been re-watching the episodes lately, and I think, even though all the murderers confessed, that they might get different sentences.
For instance, the daughter in Lover's Leap from everything she said, she was defending herself agsinst her stepmother, who thought she was responsible for her being hypnotized. She lied and tried to cover it up, but I would bet she isn't in jail as long as, say, the publicist in Sinister Scenario, who ended up killing not one, but two people. But what about her father? He tried to hypnotize his wife into killing herself, but it didn't work. Could he be charged with attempted murder for someone who died by someone else's hand?
Thoughts?
How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours. -
MsELLERYqueen2 — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 12:50 PM)
Well, one thing I noticed: Ellery usually didn't have enough evidence to even accuse them of the crime. A lot of it was just speculation on his part, but the killers always confessed. In court, they could always just say that they lied to Ellery. They could even say that Ellery isn't a cop, so he had no right to question them, etc.
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JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
ghostfan — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 01:07 PM)
Yeah, but Richard Queen, a policeman, WAS there. I think that changes things a bit. I am working with the angle that since the killers did confess, what would their punishments be.
How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours. -
ghostfan — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 01:59 PM)
Yeah, but the rules weren't as cut and dried in 1946 when the show takes place. There was even a comment in one of the episodes about warrants. Besides, my question is about sentencing.
I really don't think the daughter in Lover's leap is going to get the same punishment as Cousin Celeste.
Never mind then. I just thought a new question on a too quiet board would be interesting.
How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours. -
MsELLERYqueen2 — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 02:16 PM)
I see what you're saying, and it's a good question.
I still think that a lot of it does have to do with evidence. For example, the episode
The Sunday Punch
.spoilers ahead.
The doctor killed that boxer because he felt that the boxer was mistreating his daughter. But even then, what evidence was there that the boxer had been abusive? The daughter kept sticking up for him. She didn't say anything about abuse to Ellery. She just said that she went away for a couple of weeks because she needed a break. The only other witness is that hairdresser, but in those days, I doubt that her word would have meant a great deal. So I don't see how the jury could really say that the doctor acted in good faith. He'd probably just get the chair.
Oh yes,
Cousin Celeste
certainly deserved a more cruel punishment than most of those other killers. However, evidence would be needed to show that
she committed that other crime 25 years earlier
. Most likely she'd get the chair, or a life sentence, based on the more recent crime.which was extremely cold-blooded and cruel.
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JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
ghostfan — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 02:23 PM)
But there was proof the doctor the daughter saw when she left town of Atlantic City. That doctor knew her father, and called him to let him know what 'The Kid' did to his daughter.
How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours. -
MsELLERYqueen2 — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 02:33 PM)
Oh yes, that's true. Although I got the impression that
the daughter might still lie about it in court. She seemed like the type who would say that she lied to the other doctor, that it had been another mananything to prevent her sweetheart's reputation from being ruined. I wonder if she would even care that it's her own father who is on trial, and that her father did it all for her?
I suspect that a similar thing might happen if we saw the court cases for some of the other episodes. For example, in
The 12th Floor Express
, it would
depend on the political views of the jury members. The killer was extremely anti-Communist and vocal about it, and in those days, that might have worked in his favour. He was another extremely cold-blooded killer, who really had no good reason for doing what he did.
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JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
ghostfan — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 02:48 PM)
You have a point about 12th floor express. But the daughter, I am not so sure. She loved the boxer, but she also loved her father. Big thing was the time, and the problem. There were way less resources for women in those days. Now her boyfriend, creep that he was, is dead, and her father is going to jail. I have to wonder what will happen to her now. Will she get her act together, or fall in love with another guy who hits?
How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours. -
MsELLERYqueen2 — 11 years ago(January 04, 2015 02:59 PM)
SPOILERS
Oh yes, that thought crossed my mind. The father did all this for her, and now she'll find another abusive loser for herself, this time with no one to help her out. She didn't strike me as a woman who could see that far ahead, though.
Same with that episode
The 12th Floor Express
.
That guy did away with someone who would have exposed him as a fraud. Didn't he think that his new boss would do the same thing to him? He'd have to strike again. In fact, before the end of the episode, he was starting to see that the murder victim's sister (the new owner) was already suspicious of him.
One person who I think wouldn't get off so easily is the widow of the dead man in
The Judas Tree
.
Oh, she and her lover didn't commit the crime, but I could see some jury making a case that she drove him to suicide and all that. Even at the end, the doctor was still insisting that he didn't know about some of the problems his patient (the dead man) was having, and the court would have to revolve around showing that he knew perfectly well. But I doubt that any jury, especially an all-male jury, would really have much sympathy for that woman.
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JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
Jimmy-128 — 11 years ago(January 06, 2015 01:21 PM)
Maybe, but it would have been a tough case to sell to a jury. The DA might have decided that it was a losing battle to begin with.
I'm not even sure Cathy does any jail time at all. As you say, it was self-defense, even given the cover-up afterwards. -
ghostfan — 11 years ago(January 06, 2015 02:18 PM)
I think it might depend on how sympathetic a jury/judge there was.
There weren't any witnesses, and forensics was still in it's infancy. But a good lawyer, and her father, since he is no longer a suspect, would have the money to get her a good one, might be able to get a lawyer who could make a self defense case.
How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours.