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Interpret theme song

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    Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — MASH


    bandcgattis — 18 years ago(July 24, 2007 07:26 PM)

    Can someone who gets poetry and symbolism explain the lyrics to "Suicide is Painless"?

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      hoobler878 — 18 years ago(July 24, 2007 08:06 PM)

      The lyrics are meaningless.

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        2001-4 — 18 years ago(August 05, 2007 05:56 PM)

        I disagree. The lyrics, posted below, mean that life is short, and if one is tired of hate (war) one recourse is suicide. Not a very good alternative, but one that's available to us all given that death is inevitable anyway.
        Further, we make choices about loving or hating, and suicide is preferable to living in hate (war) since we all live in an imperfect, painful world. . . one where there are no easy answers to meaningful questions.
        'Suicide is Painless'
        Through early morning fog I see
        visions of the things to be
        the pains that are withheld for me
        I realize and I can see
        [REFRAIN]:
        that suicide is painless
        It brings on many changes
        and I can take or leave it if I please.
        I try to find a way to make
        all our little joys relate
        without that ever-present hate
        but now I know that it's too late, and
        [REFRAIN]
        The game of life is hard to play
        I'm gonna lose it anyway
        The losing card I'll someday lay
        so this is all I have to say.
        [REFRAIN]
        The only way to win is cheat
        And lay it down before I'm beat
        and to another give my seat
        for that's the only painless feat.
        [REFRAIN]
        The sword of time will pierce our skins
        It doesn't hurt when it begins
        But as it works its way on in
        The pain grows strongerwatch it grin, but
        [REFRAIN]
        A brave man once requested me
        to answer questions that are key
        is it to be or not to be
        and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
        [REFRAIN]
        'Cause suicide is painless
        it brings on many changes
        and I can take or leave it if I please.
        and you can do the same thing if you please.

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          dadoo4050 — 18 years ago(August 07, 2007 05:22 AM)

          The sword of time will pierce our skins
          It doesn't hurt when it begins
          But as it works its way on in
          The pain grows strongerwatch it grin
          One must remember that the lyrics were written by a teenager. It has been my expereince (I am an English teacher, and have taught "creative writing" as well as traditional literature and grammar courses) that teens tend to deal with dark topics. "Teen angst" is, indeed, an appropriate term.
          That being said, the stanza above is especially prescient. "The sword of time," a metaphor, indicates that not only does time pass, but it destroys as well. As one ages (believe me, I'm beginning to experience this firsthand), things that were physically no big deal become real burdens as the body wears down. At first, these little aches seem minor ("It doesn't hurt when it begins"). But as time passes, its sword leaves a deeper cut, and those little aches become arthritis, gout, etc. No matter what remedies we use, they only delay the inevitible, and so the pain mocks us ("watch it grin" [personification]).
          Verse structure: quatrain
          Rhyme scheme: AAAA (or AABB if we get really nitpicky on the forced rhyme on the last 2 lines)
          Rhythm: Iambic quatrameter (the SWORD of LIFE will PIERCE our SKINS)
          "uva uvam vivendo varia fit"

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            jdavisjdavis — 18 years ago(December 27, 2007 11:45 AM)

            I heard a remake of this song on the radio and it finally led me here. Very nice analysis. The "sword of time" metaphor is particularly powerful in my opinion.

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              dadoo4050 — 18 years ago(December 27, 2007 12:42 PM)

              Was the re-make by "Manic Street Preachers"? If so, that is a kick-ass (really good) version.
              I am putting together a video of clips and stills from our recent stage production of MAS*H, and I am using that version for the music track.
              "uva uvam vivendo varia fit"

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                JasonIK75 — 9 years ago(September 20, 2016 06:55 PM)

                dadoo4050
                typed:
                One must remember that the lyrics were written by a teenager. It has been my experience (I am an English teacher, and have taught "creative writing" as well as traditional literature and grammar courses) that teens tend to deal with dark topics. "Teen angst" is, indeed, an appropriate term.
                Reportedly, Robert Altman wanted the lyrics to be "meaningless." Instead, we got a sad, moving song about death and futility that has endured and people still listen to 40+ years later. Springtime for Hitler indeed (
                http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpringtimeForHitler
                ).
                "May the Force be with you."

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                  dadoo4050 — 18 years ago(August 16, 2007 06:32 AM)

                  The game of life is hard to play
                  I'm gonna lose it anyway
                  The losing card I'll someday lay
                  so this is all I have to say.
                  This stanza is really simplebut a nice use of extended metaphor. (Metaphor=implied comparison [not using the words "like" or "as"].) The comparison is obviouslife is like a game that cannot be won, as no matter how we play it, it ultimately ends in death. The "losing card" is another reference to suicide as it is the ACT of laying this card that ends the game.
                  This extended metaphor continues into the next stanza.
                  Verse structure: quatrain
                  Rhyme scheme: AAAA
                  Rhythm: Iambic quatrameter (the GAME of LIFE is HARD to PLAY)
                  "uva uvam vivendo varia fit"

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                    rexb-2 — 17 years ago(June 26, 2008 11:45 AM)

                    The "losing card" is the inevitability of death that comes too all. So suicide is considered an alternative. To cheat death of playing the card "for" us, suicide is chosen as the alternative that puts the play in our own hands. But since that is self-murder it is no option. How could it be true that we could cheat "inevitable death" by taking our own life earlier? That doesn't even make sense. It would be like saying "to keep someone from taking my money in high taxes when I die, I'm going to burn all of my money now and show them!!" How stupid.
                    Ecclesiates 2:14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that
                    one event happeneth to them all
                    .
                    Ecclesiates 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good:
                    do not all go to one place?
                    Ecclesiates 7:1-2 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth. '2' It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting:
                    for that is the end of all men;
                    and the living will lay it to his heart.
                    Ecclesiates 9:5
                    For the living know that they shall die
                    : but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. '6' Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

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                      laustcawz-789-925423 — 15 years ago(November 18, 2010 12:27 AM)

                      I think the point is that taking your own life (or putting your own life in danger [such as in war]) means you retain some degree of control of the choice or situation, instead of having death just happen randomly. Some other good examples of this idea in movies are "Whose Life Is It Anyway?" (1981), "'night, Mother" (1986)based on a Pulitzer Prize-winning play & "Short Time" (1990). It's not death that's being "cheated" so much as the fear of it.

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                        shieldsdraeger — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 05:56 PM)

                        The point of the refrain is choice, the option to choose how you die. This is, of
                        course, contrary to religious doctrine which is why it's so subversive. Very much
                        in the spirit of the film.

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                          dadoo4050 — 18 years ago(August 16, 2007 06:40 AM)

                          A brave man once requested me
                          to answer questions that are key
                          is it to be or not to be
                          and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
                          Another simple stanza, but interesting in that it uses allusion (allusion=referencing an earlier work or historical event). The obvious allusion here is to "Hamlet." Young Altman tops the Dane's despair ("to be, or not to be?") with an even gloomier statement of futility ("oh, why ask me?").
                          "uva uvam vivendo varia fit"

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                            Warhol_Soup — 18 years ago(November 30, 2007 05:30 PM)

                            I always figured the lyrics were meant to be taken as a bit over the top. Kinda absurd. I've never seen it as other than what was supposed to be a bit of dark comedy where the guy singing was probably doing so with a big smile because he understood the context. I could be dead wrong, but tone can throw any reading of lyrics on its head.

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                              hoobler878 — 18 years ago(August 16, 2007 12:38 PM)

                              I stand corrected.

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                                2001-4 — 18 years ago(August 17, 2007 05:00 PM)

                                ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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                                  IMDb User

                                  This message has been deleted.

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                                    dadoo4050 — 18 years ago(August 18, 2007 04:29 AM)

                                    Thanks, Hoobler. You'd be most welcome in my class.
                                    "uva uvam vivendo varia fit"

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                                      2001-4 — 18 years ago(August 26, 2007 12:23 PM)

                                      ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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                                        dadoo4050 — 18 years ago(August 26, 2007 03:35 PM)

                                        And you, too, 2001-4, would be welcome in my class. You recognize that the lyrics are not meaningless, as indicated by your earlier post. That you do not find the mechanics of poetry engaging is OK with me; I would welcome your input as to interpretation. I am sure that you can liven things up.
                                        A warning, though: in my class, a student is never allowed to use the word "boring" to critique a work they do not find engaging. Unless, of course, he or she goes on to explain just why the piece is boring.
                                        "uva uvam vivendo varia fit"

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                                          dirtylittletaru — 18 years ago(September 01, 2007 01:13 AM)

                                          I found your posts very interesting, though I always thought the lyrics were easily interpreted.

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