Dead Scarlet and Black Green
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons
Manicman8 — 20 years ago(March 11, 2006 09:58 AM)
well.. i really have two things to comment and say about so i might as well do them in the same topic..
- Why does the triva comment about 'Lieutenant Green is the only leading black male character to appear in any Gerry Anderson series.' i may be a bit dumb on his matter but. Lieutenant Green is black? since when? I know the VA Cy Grant is (the puppet for green was used in Joe 90 and Secret Services if i remember right) but even if i look at a picture now, he doesn't really look black to me.. he probbly is though.. i think the character was meant to be born near Jamaica i think Trinidad.. but i never really noticed
And - Has anyone noticed that alot of the times, people forgot that Scarlet died in the first Episode.. The Mysterons would kill the person and make a copy of them. Captain Black was a copy, so was Scarlet.. But Scarlet then turned on his 'creators' and took the place of Captian Scarlet. This is why he is indestructable and why in the one episode (they are testing a machine that can tell if someone is a Mysteron or not, it says that Scarlet is)
Manic Man
Http://www.TheEmeraldStarPost.co.uk
Http://www.TESP.co.uk
- Why does the triva comment about 'Lieutenant Green is the only leading black male character to appear in any Gerry Anderson series.' i may be a bit dumb on his matter but. Lieutenant Green is black? since when? I know the VA Cy Grant is (the puppet for green was used in Joe 90 and Secret Services if i remember right) but even if i look at a picture now, he doesn't really look black to me.. he probbly is though.. i think the character was meant to be born near Jamaica i think Trinidad.. but i never really noticed
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gojohnniegogo — 20 years ago(March 21, 2006 10:37 AM)
There's quite a bit of debate on the second topic. I dont believe Black was a copy, but the original as his face changes from one shot to another, and in the first or second episode, Colonel White is referring to Black and says: "Again a trusted man, dissapeared on his return and hasnt been seen since". I dont think people forgot that Scarlet died in the first episode along with Captain Brown in the car 'accident'. The episode where the Mysteron dectector and gun first appeared is 'Spectrum Strikes Back'.
As for Lt. Green it took me quite a while to realise that he was in fact a black character and his origins are supposed to be Trinidad. I think it was the first series Anderson believed audiences where starting to accept black actors etc in shows, I've read there were supposed to be black characters in Fireball XL5, but they were told to remove them.
Hope some of this info helps, if anyone has any facts feel free to prove me right/wrong!
"Do I get a coconut?"
"If we get out of this, I'll buy you all the coconuts you can eat!" -
Manicman8 — 20 years ago(March 26, 2006 11:33 PM)
thing is.. he is not really what I would call a Clone (the term is used for copys this days and stuff). I never understood HOW he could turn on his creators since it's not just a clone of Captain Scarlet. They are Made to pretty much be Mysterons in Human form. I just find (mostly back from when i was younger) that alot of people forgot he wasn't human but a Mysteron agent. The idea that he was just a clone that was brainwashed is a bit dumb since then there would be no real need to do a clone. He was a Mysteron Agent givin Human form and the memorys (to a point) of Captain Scarlet. They never seem to fully explain him and apart from the odd case, they more treat and refer to him as captain scarlet.. true, this would be the best case but atlest a five minture bit about Captain Blue commented that he is not really Captain Scarlet but he is a copy and he is a mysteron so they can use that. It is kinda a major point. He was made almost indestruable because he was really a mysteron agent.
The whole bit with Captain Black gets more confusing.. he can't really be the oringal since he appears to now have 'mysteron' powers. So he is probbly a copy. Captain Scarlett doesn't seam to have all these powers but that could be more a case that he can't use them for some reason, or he is just a quick copy..
Manic Man
Http://www.TheEmeraldStarPost.co.uk
Http://www.TESP.co.uk -
Manicman8 — 20 years ago(March 27, 2006 07:47 AM)
Although it is from the 'offical creators' (AKA 21st Centery) i doubt the plan was that Captain Scarlett is set a few years After Stingray.. But it is meant to be that it is the case and that many people from spectrum used to work for wasp etc.. The reasons i doubt this was true at the time of the programs being made is that they do not go together with each other.. Stingray has the world in danger from the water, Captain Scarlett is from the air.. if they WERE set in the same 'timeline' then there would be much more inferface between the two.. Did all the , i've forgotten the name right now, get killed in same way? else am sure they would be doing things at the time..
anyway.. Captain Scarlett was made to be an unlikey guy.. simple as that.. really, a contrast to something like Stingray in which Troy was meant to be very likeyable..
Manic Man
Http://www.TheEmeraldStarPost.co.uk
Http://www.TESP.co.uk -
Carlzere — 20 years ago(April 01, 2006 11:45 PM)
I think I read somewhere that the Scarlet who fell from the London Car-Vue Skypark in episode 1 was a Mysteron 'replicant/clone/agent/whatever, but that the original version of him (Paul Metcalfe, Spectrum agent) had an unusually resilient personality.which was supposed to have been part of the Mysteron 'Blueprint' and re asserted itself at the time of the 'clone's' death.clear as mud!
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ACtheLegend — 19 years ago(April 17, 2006 08:23 AM)
The mysterons control their clones (or replicants) by special signals sent from Mars (see Flight 104). When a replicant fails a mission, the control signal is cut off. As the replicant Scarlet in episode 1 fell from the car-vu, the signal was cut
IMPORTANT BIT:
To clone a person the mysterons do not need to kill them, they only need the persons mind to be dormant (hence why they are able to clone the half-drowned Major Gravenor in Treble Cross).
However, after the car crash in episode 1, the original Captain Scarlet's mind was still slightly active. When the mysterons cloned him they inadvertantly cloned the original Scarlets mind.
(continued from section 1)This left a void in the clones mind. Due to the unusually resiliant personality of the Scarlet, his original mind (that had been inadvertantly copied) was awaked.
LEAVING US WITH:
Because Scarlets original mind is now in a body that was created to heal itself, Captain Scarlet is the basically the same man as before the crash, except now vitually indestructable.
Final notes:
It is generally accepted that Captain Scarlet cannot be killed by electricity (which is the only thing that kills a mysteron, by interfering with their control signals from Mars) since he is not recieveing control signals from Mars. He is, however, quite reluctant to test this theory (see Noose of Ice).
Hope that helped some of you.
"Daniel, make us proud!" :Little Sean, George, Roger, Pierce and Tiny Tim -
Unicorn-9 — 19 years ago(July 03, 2006 04:16 PM)
"i may be a bit dumb on his matter but. Lieutenant Green is black?"
Now that you've mentioned it I can see that he's meant to be black, but I'd never noticed that before :). His skin isn't that much darker than some of the other puppets, maybe they couldn't get plastic/rubber to look any darker than that. -
kodai — 19 years ago(September 11, 2006 07:23 AM)
Yes, Lt. Green is black and was born in Trinidad.
Now as far as Capt. Black goes, we never see the full extent of the Mysterons powers. This can more than explain how Capt. Black is the real and only Capt. Black and is under the control of the Mysterons. Also the Mysterons may have decided that using direct control over a person was not worth the resources they had to use (as in energy, mabey constant attention, or whatever). Capt. Scarlet on the other hand was one of the first attempts at a cheap clone. Given this as a possibility it would stand to reason that they may have chosen a stronger than needed construct. Once they lost control and ended up with a nearly impossible to destory adversary, they chose not to make the rest of their cheap constructs so tough.
Now of course none of this (except the Lt. Green part) is canon, but just my two cents. Still, with that in mind I've been able to enjoy this wonderful series for over 20 years because I have built a logical and plausible gap filler. What other ideas can the rest of you add to this? Mabey we can all help enhance our fun with this classic by tossing out some fresh ideas. -
pearl_girl79 — 19 years ago(December 12, 2006 11:43 PM)
Leutenant Green never looked black to me on cloudbase. He never looked any darker than a person of hispanic descent. However, if you watch the episodes where Green accompanies Scarlet (and one time Blue and Scarlet) on missions he looks a lot darker than them and then he appears on cloudbase. I never knew he was black till I read it. BTW, did you notice when they do close ups of hands,(as we all know they use real human hands) when they did close ups for Green's hands that it was always a white hand?
This was hardly deliberate though, since they also used MALE hands for close ups of the Angels hands when in the fighter jets. Just an stupid oversight I guess.
Mina
Build me a bridge and GET OVER IT! -
Carlzere — 19 years ago(December 15, 2006 08:05 PM)
From reading/watching many books and documentaries on the subject of Anderson shows, it seems the reason for it always being white, male hands used in close up shots is that they tended to grab the nearest technician/crew member for those shots. On a large screen this becomes obvious, as many of the close ups show hands that are less than immaculately clean. (Not an insult, merely stating that techies get their hands dirty!)
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Slightly off topic, but one of my favourite on-screen give aways is the scene in the episode 'The Inquisition' with Captain Blue jumping out of the 'Cloudbase' set. In both angles of the shot, in slow forward and freeze frame, you can see a technician's hands pushing the puppet through the glass!
A cup of the old chai, Mr Deltoid? -
moysant — 18 years ago(September 20, 2007 11:58 PM)
Green only looked 'ethnic' to me once I knew he was supposed to be.
As for Scarlett's indestructibility, etc, I've just watched the first 16 episodes, and it didn't make any sense to me at all. I assume the Mysterons don't know that Scarlet has come back to life (they didn't know his name?).
The episode where Scarlet 'quits' due to blowing $5000 on gambling (!!) has the Mysteron agents trying to pretend they are criminals wanting his help (as an ex-Spectra agent), and then suddenly they are talking about 'help us earthman' identifying themselves as Mysteron agents and assuming he is one of them!! Capt Black is hiding behind a door meanwhile (this is the episode when Scarlet shoots Cpt Blue).
Made no sense at all!!!!
Someone here said that Cpt Scarlet was a colder show than other Anderson productions - I agree. The characters personalities seem to have been sacrificed for the amazing marionette technology. But very good production values. I do like the 'terrorist' type theme and that the Mysteron's are gonna take centuries to kill humans off.
As for Captain Black - if you watch the first episode really carefully, you can see the moment he is taken over by the Mysterons. As their voice says "One of you will be under our control. You will be instrumental in avenging the Mysterons" there is a close up of Black's face (as he sits in the Martian exploration vehicle) and he suddenly has dark circles under his eyes and pasty looking skin. It is subtle but there is definitely a change in his face from previous scenes where he looks 'normal'. So you know it is he that is being taken over (besides the fact that Capt Black is a villians name). HE IS NOT KILLED AT ANYTIME - at least in this or subsequent episodes. The idea is that he is being punished for ordering the blowing up of the Mysteron base - which is a really creepy and advanced moral lesson for a kids show! -
Carlzere — 10 years ago(October 07, 2015 12:46 AM)
In the Anderson world, ie from comic strips and even what Colonel White said in the first ep, was that Captain Black disappeared shortly after the Zero-X mission returned to Earth. My 'bridge gap' idea on this is as follows: ( NOT canon, just my idea)The Mysterons take over Captain Black. The remaining crew of Zero-X are hypnotised and/or mentally subdued so as not to realise that Black is oh, so very different. This allows the Mysterons to insert Black as their agent on Earth, with the humans thoughtfully providing transport, as it's generally acknowledged that the Mysterons have no physical existence, and can't just 'zap him though space'. The Mysteron control power may be like radar in that a transmission travels further than the ability to receive an 'echo' so they can send instructions etc, but don't have the bandwidth to teleport a complete person/replica. Maybe. Black's ability to disappear to evade capture may be a power the Mysterons imbue him with, that they have to initiate..
'It's in the trees! It's coming!'