Just reading the play scriptit is so full of awkward and rushed dialogue, inconsistencies with characters and situations
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — West Side Story
StrongRex — 15 years ago(August 07, 2010 07:36 PM)
Just reading the play scriptit is so full of awkward and rushed dialogue, inconsistencies with characters and situations, and several of the scenes are misplaced. Whoever decided that "Cool" and "Gee, Officer Krupke" should be in the scenes they are in the playthat alone shows the author's writing leaves a lot to be desired. Arthur Laurents, I am looking at you.
Yes, I have heard the argument that "Gee, Officer Krupke" is supposed to be an angry song. Yes, I have heard the argument that "Cool" was meant to show Riff as a powerful leader. But those arguments still do not match up, and I'll tell you why.
The Jets may have been angry when singing "Gee, Officer Krupke," but there were still comical elements in the song that's guaranteed to make people laugh. I'm not saying it's a happy-go-lucky song, but it's still very comical. After Riff's death, we are not supposed to laugh. The enjoyable moments were supposed to be before the rumble, and now that it's happened and lives have been lost now it is time to get serious. The movie did a wonderful job of making this clear but the play did not. And just the general way this scene was written, it just didn't have that same effect on me. It didn't seem to me that the Jets were really that concerned about what just happened, that they even cared. They just didn't seem to be reacting as urgently and drastically as they should have been. Unlike in the movie, where they were going insane and ready to tear the Sharks limb from limb, and where "Cool" actually
applied
to the particular situation, they showed little worry about the after-effects of the rumble, they sang "Gee, Officer Krupke" even though it had nothing to do with making sure they got revenge on the Sharks, and then when Anybodys shows up then they decide to take their situation seriously. That seemed really forced and out of place.
Which brings me to my next point; of all the Jets they could have chosen to take Riff's place as leader, they chose
Action
.
And they don't give any early hints or indications that Action is going to mature enough to be a good leader when the story calls for it, Oh No!! He goes out of character and immediately becomes the cool-headed, authoritative type for no reason when throughout the entire story, he is consistently portrayed as hot-headed, always ready to fight, always yelling and using his fists, and he would NEVER make the good decisions the writers forced him to make. This is what I mean by character inconsistencies. Action didn't become the way he did in the second act because he had the character development for it, he became the cool-headed authority because the plot needed him to be.
Here is where the movie got this right: They, as we know, put "Gee, Officer Krupke" after the dance and before the war council, and they put "Cool" after the rumble which, as I said, applied way better to their current situation and actually made sense. AND, they kept Action in character and chose a better, more realistic candidate to replace Riff: Ice. This character should have been in the play!
Another song in a different scene I sort of have a problem with is "I Feel Pretty" taking place after the rumble and before Maria finds out that Tony killed her brother Bernardo. I'm not as nit-picky about this scene as the other two I mentioned, because you can't really blame Maria for not knowing the truth yet. But at the same time, the tone of this scene is still inappropriate if it immediately follows a horrible,
gut-wrenching
sequence of violence. And in the back of our minds we know that Maria's happiness is going to be horribly shattered when she hears what Tony did, and it's just more torture on the audience. At least in the movie, when the song took place in the bridal shop, you still had hope that everything was going to work out well for our two lovers. Seeing her perform it after the rumble is just torture, and for the same reason I gave for "Gee, Officer Krupke," there's not supposed to be more fun to play out through the plot. After the rumble, it's serious business.
The dialogue also flows better in the movie; when reading the script most of the lines were shorter, more choppy, and just plain awkward like they've turned in the first rough draft. You could just tell the writers could have worded the lines a lot better. In the movie, I felt the lines were almost perfect.
I'm not saying I didn't like the play, but I sure as heck liked the movie a LOT better than I did the play. I still consider West Side Story to be my favorite musical of all time, and Tony is still my number one dream role onstage. Hopefully, if I even do get the role the director might make similar changes to the script to make it more like the movie. I know that's not likely to happen but I can dream.
I heard they put on a revival of West Side Story a couple of years ago if I'm not mistaken. All I heard was they gave the Sharks more dialogue in Spanish, and dubbed the entire "I Feel Pret -
mikwalen — 15 years ago(August 17, 2010 02:10 PM)
Hi! BRAVO to your entire post!!!
I feel as you do the film version works much better than the stage version. I have a personal anecdote about this:
Three years ago, I directed WSS for my churchs theater group. I had planned on adding the Shark boys into AMERICA, and worked out choreography for them.
Now comes the contract from the theatrical leasing agency, Music Theater International. There were a bazillion clauses in the contract about what we could and couldnt do with the show. Among them- We were NOT allowed to cut any music. This created a problem, because I wanted to trim the prologue and the dance break in COOL a little bit, due to having kids that werent really dancers, and because Im not a true choreographer.
- We were NOT allowed to add the boys into AMERICA. I hadnt planned on altering the song, I just wanted the boys in the number. We were strictly and specifically forbidden. I had to re-do all the choreography.
- We were NOT allowed to move COOL, KRUPKE, and I FEEL PRETTY from their original spots.
Believe it or not, what I DID get about two weeks before the show opened was a sheet giving me politically-corrected line changes!! I was expected to incorporate them into the show. Nothing doing. My cast by that time had learned the lines and I wasnt about to upset and confuse them with sudden changes.
Technically, I wasnt supposed to change any lines of dialogue, but I did it anyway. In a church setting, I wasnt about to use some of the raunchier lines and language. I substituted similar wordings that got the point across.
By the way, I saw the Broadway revival. I didnt care for it. They ruined the final scene the curtain drops on Tony lying dead in Marias arms. No gang repentance as they join together and pick up Tonys body. I have to say that some of the acting and singing was pretty weak.
"Everytime I want to have a little fun-SHE turns out!" (Baron Bomburst)
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StrongRex — 15 years ago(August 18, 2010 09:01 AM)
Oh my gosh! I totally forgot about "America" in my post! That's another song/scene I had a problem with. I had no issue with it being after "Tonight," but I did have an issue with the Sharks discussing the flaws/good things about America and then Bernardo and his gang just leave, and then it's only the Shark girls singing that song. And in that song, it is many girls who are in love with America pitted against one girl, Rosalia, who is feeling homesick. This scene might have worked if there were at least several more girls on Rosalia's side and the girls who were on the side of America didn't have an unfair advantage. Plus, the lyrics, like the dialogue, were awkward, rushed, choppy, and pathetic.
The lyrics in the movie's version of America were wittier and much more clever. It is also more entertaining when it's the boys against the girls, plus it doesn't force the situation by forcing Bernardo to leave before the song. It further develops the scene by having him stay, and actually letting him have a singing part. This is one of the play's biggest flaws; it tells you that Bernardo is a lead role, and yet he doesn't sing once by himself.
I totally know what you mean about the clauses when directing the play. We did West Side Story when I was in high school (mediocre production AT BEST), and our director brought up the fact that he was not allowed to change anything like that either. However, I went to see a production of WSS at the park 5 years ago, and they had changed the play to make it more like the movie. They switched "Cool" and "Krupke", they added the boys into "America", and they put "I Feel Pretty" in the beginning of Act 2 in the bridal shop. I can't remember if they got in trouble or not, but I would have enjoyed that production a lot less if they had kept to the original script.
But my director apparently had no problem cutting some core pieces of music out of the big numbers for no other reason that he was just being lazy, even though we had an excellent choreographer that made the dances much more doable. I personally don't think the Prologue needs to be trimmed, given it's not as long in the play as it is in the movie, but he did that. With the Rumble all they did was play the intro over and over, and with the Somewhere ballet (which I had never seen onstage), they cut all the dances and just had the soloist sing.
Personally, I think "Cool" was a bit extreme for the situation it was given in the play. It totally works after the rumble, but before the war council? What are they supposed to keep cool for? The Sharks? Doc? It didn't come across to me as a desperate, life-or-death situation that the context of the song calls for. Once again, Arthur Laurents, your writing leaves a lot to be desired.
Strange, my school's production did the same thing at the final scene; Tony is lying dead in Maria's arms, and everyone just leaves them alone. The director didn't make sure the gangs showed signs of repentance, and a lot of the acting and singing was weak in the production I was in. -
mikwalen — 15 years ago(August 19, 2010 07:21 AM)
Hi Dan!
Arthur Laurents is in record saying that he is not thrilled with the film version. I have a book called A FINE ROMANCE, which details behind-the-scenes stories about Broadway to Hollywood transfers. It contains an essay written by Laurents saying that he thought Rich Beymer was just an ingnue, and that the Jets looked like chorus boys. He did not like the switch of the song positions either. In the special edition dvd, he is interviewed, but I noticed he stayed away from criticisizing the film in his comments. (By the way, Laurents also hated the film of his GYPSY, which happens to be another one of my favorite stage-to-screen transfers).
I agree with you 100% about the positioning of those songs in the film. COOL is too intense for the pre-rumble atmosphere. The lyrics alone beg to be placed after the rumble in the stressed out, explosive attitude that the boys now have. I also am with you on having the boys in AMERICA. I realized that Bernardo doesnt sing a note in the stage show! I wasnt going to have him actually sing, but I was planning on having the boys dance in the number.
The person who handles the paperwork for my drama group at the church was too afraid to let me take a chance on changing things believe it or not, those agency people DO drop in occasionally when one of their shows is being done, and all kinds of legal trouble can start if they get crossed! Apparently ,the estates of Robbins and Bernstein fanatically guard all the properties associated with these men. Sondheim is also known to be zealous in protecting his work, and has been known to check up on productions of his work.
It is true that the prologue is not as long in the show, but I was edgy about getting the show off to a bumpy start and that's why I wanted to trim it just a bit. Since I knew my limitations as a choreographer, I staged the prologue with some basic steps and had scuffles between the Sharks and Jets occur throughout, before the big fight at the end when Schrank comes in. I threw the Jet and Shark girls into the prologue as well hey, the contract DIDNT tell me I couldnt. This used up some of the music and showed the tensions between the female counterparts as well. I didnt have a problem staging the Gym Dance and AMERICA, though. The music in those numbers is easier to deal with. SInce we have a small budget, we usually use it on nice sets and costumes. A choreographer would usually want a nice chunk of change, so I try to do it myself.
Thanks for your posts!
"I was NEVER in the chorus!!!!" (Vera Charles) -
nateba — 15 years ago(February 24, 2011 09:28 AM)
They made you do the dream sequence? That's frequently cut.
My wife has conducted WSS a couple times. She says that "Cool" is nigh unto impossible to do with cuts because it's structured as a fugue.
cinefreak -
StrongRex — 15 years ago(August 19, 2010 10:10 AM)
B) The "Officer Krupke" scene is a tragicomical way of the Jets pointing out that they, too had issues that needed addressing.
Well yesit is tragicomical but still comical, and therefore still inappropriate post-rumble. I even admitted that it was not a happy song in the beginning, but the general way it is written people are still going to find the song funny. Laurents and Bernstein were not thinking of that.
Arthur Laurents is in record saying that he is not thrilled with the film version. I have a book called A FINE ROMANCE, which details behind-the-scenes stories about Broadway to Hollywood transfers. It contains an essay written by Laurents saying that he thought Rich Beymer was just an ingnue, and that the Jets looked like chorus boys. He did not like the switch of the song positions either. In the special edition dvd, he is interviewed, but I noticed he stayed away from criticisizing the film in his comments. (By the way, Laurents also hated the film of his GYPSY, which happens to be another one of my favorite stage-to-screen transfers).
I heard the same about Leonard Bernsteinthat he didn't like that "Cool" and "Gee, Officer Krupke" were switched in the movie. Man, those two are stubborn! I can see where they would be coming from in some way, because I probably wouldn't like it either if I wrote something and the movie producers/directors changed some things around. But at the same time, maybe the better thing to do, instead of being stubborn and upset, keep an open mind that maybe some things could work either way or work in a better way than how you put it originally. Maybe that's hard to accept for some people, but with WSS I believe Laurents and Bernstein have no excuse. Maybe I'm just being biased, but I believe so are they.
I agree with you 100% about the positioning of those songs in the film. COOL is too intense for the pre-rumble atmosphere. The lyrics alone beg to be placed after the rumble in the stressed out, explosive attitude that the boys now have. I also am with you on having the boys in AMERICA. I realized that Bernardo doesnt sing a note in the stage show! I wasnt going to have him actually sing, but I was planning on having the boys dance in the number.
Well, Bernardo does sing, but it's always in the chorus, never as even one solo. My director though, did have the boys come in and dance in our production, something you said you wanted to do. If I could find the sheet music for the movie's version of America though, I would probably give it to my director if I'm in West Side Story again, and see if he/she is brave enough to use it instead of the stage's lyrics.
The person who handles the paperwork for my drama group at the church was too afraid to let me take a chance on changing things believe it or not, those agency people DO drop in occasionally when one of their shows is being done, and all kinds of legal trouble can start if they get crossed! Apparently ,the estates of Robbins and Bernstein fanatically guard all the properties associated with these men. Sondheim is also known to be zealous in protecting his work, and has been known to check up on productions of his work.
Soit's not enough they want to keep the play the way it is and that's it. They have to make sure NO productions whatsoever of West Side Story ever stray from the original script in any way, shape or form. Even if it's something as small as a church youth group or a high school production. I can understand copyright laws to an extent, but not when they are taken to a certain degree. I still don't agree it should be illegal to post movies or filmed productions of plays onstage, because sometimes that's the only way people can see certain stuff. As long as you acknowledge who it belongs to, there shouldn't be any trouble.
And also, since there are people who prefer "Cool" and "Krupke" switched in the movie, it should be optional to switch them. There is an optional insert in the "Jet Song" if I remember correctly anyway, so why not do the same for those two songs.
It is true that the prologue is not as long in the show, but I was edgy about getting the show off to a bumpy start and that's why I wanted to trim it just a bit. Since I knew my limitations as a choreographer, I staged the prologue with some basic steps and had scuffles between the Sharks and Jets occur throughout, before the big fight at the end when Schrank comes in.
I guess that is understandable. I never really agreed with complicated technical dances being what the Prologue was all about anyway. I think dancing should tell a story, not show off. There are shows in which complicated forms of ballet and such are appropriate, but even in some areas of West Side Story I don't think it is. The movie's Prologue was definitely longer, and I think in a way it dragged because they wanted to show off the dancing. They still succeeded at telling the story, but the dancing still got in the way.
So yes, I definitely have agree with you -
StrongRex — 15 years ago(August 19, 2010 12:51 PM)
You're welcome, and thanks for your compliments. I saw West Side Story for the first time in my 8th grade choir, and I have been a fan since my 15th birthday when I got the tape, and that was almost 7 years ago. So in that amount of time I have done research and tried to get in the show myself (though I was in it once and it wasn't a good experience).
Yes, I knew that he and Natalie Wood were not on good terms throughout the making of the movie. I couldn't tell when watching the movie that they weren't, so I give them both credit for expressing believable chemistry. I heard that one reason she didn't like him was because she, yes, had been dating Warren Beatty at the time and had wanted him to be Tony. But here is my personal opinion with that; if she really had such an issue with Beymer, she should have taken it up with the directors who cast him. It wasn't Beymer's fault he got cast as Tony, he probably auditioned just like everybody else. Plus, he was having a hard enough time trying to deal with Wise, as I mentioned earlier.
Also, she was already co-starring with Beatty in Splendor in the Grass that same year, so wasn't that enough? And Natalie Wood, being a child starshe of all people should have realized that being an actress involves expanding your horizons and working with many different people, not the same person all the time. Being upset at something really trivial like not working with the same person in one movie that you worked with in another movie just because you are personally involved with that personthat was really childish on Wood's part.
Where Beymer and Wood stood has a good ending though. I'm slightly iffy on this one, but I think a few years later, Beymer ran into her and she called him over. Not one to hold a grudge, Beymer walked over and they talked. He reported that she was very friendly and that she was a genuinely good person. -
movibuf1962 — 15 years ago(August 19, 2010 01:48 PM)
I love that someone is revisiting this topic of discussion which goes as far back as the film itself.
I'm 48 years old and saw the film for the first time at 12. It immediately became one of my favorite movies. I didn't even see it as a stage show until its second revival in the 1980's when I was in college. So many things struck me as odd: the singing of "Cool" in Act 1 didn't bother me per se, but putting both "Krupke" and especially "I Feel Pretty" in Act 2 AFTER the rumble just left a bad taste in my mouth. I understand in the plot point with Maria that she didn't know what had happened yet, but it still felt like an intrusion after the ultra-tragic Act 1 finale. One of the BEST compensations to come out of the film was to make "Pretty" a hybrid of 2 sequences: the song performed now at the bridal shop during the day BEFORE the rumble, and continue the scene later as an intimate rooftop dance by Maria alone as she waits for Tony. (The sight of Natalie Wood dancing alone in a white dress made me and probably much of the male population fall in love with her.) "Cool," of course is sublime in its shift to a low-celing auto garage as a spectacular form of musical group therapy. Tucker Smith as Ice (another strictly film creation) rocked. He should've been the Jets' leader the whole time!!
And did anyone notice the Overture is different on film too: the "Tonight" quintet on stage is always followed by "Somewhere" (in a very sad, minor-key arrangement), and then the mambo dance. The film overture replaces "Somewhere" with the lushest, most beautiful arrangement of "Maria" that I've ever heard. It makes the anticipation you're feeling happy rather than sad. I always loved it- despite everyone's criticism of the static Manhattan diorama at the beginning. -
mikwalen — 15 years ago(August 20, 2010 06:41 AM)
I love all your comments!
It bothered me to hear that Natalie had issues with Beymer, because shes one of my favorite actresses. However, I saw a photo taken behind the scenes, and they are sitting together smiling. Id like to think that was candid and not staged for the camera.
Being in Staten Island, my shows are always in danger of being checked up on by the agency Powers That Be, who are all located in NYC. As such, we pretty much toe the line as far as sticking to the script. If we were in the Midwest, we could probably get away with making little changes. I do know of a NJ group that did WSS, and it was practically a dupe of the film, placed onstage. How they got away with THAT, I dont know. I doubt they had permission, because I called MTI (the licensing agent for WSS) and asked (begged really) permission to use the boys in AMERICA, and the rep on the phone was adamant cant do it. As I stated earlier, the one area where I didnt back down was on making little modifications to some of the references in the lines, given the venue in which we were playing.
"I was NEVER in the chorus!!!!" (Vera Charles) -
StrongRex — 15 years ago(August 20, 2010 09:56 AM)
You know, when starting a topic like this, this subject should have gotten some backlash from people who think differently about it by now. I'm surprised no one has tried to stick up for the play's original script in this conversation yet. Usually, when I bring up the play's flaws to other people that I brought up here, I get plenty of people who disagree with me. I'm surprised I haven't gotten it here yet.
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Matt-145 — 15 years ago(August 21, 2010 08:06 AM)
I don't have an opinion for either way, so am not a dissenter, but do point out that one was a live musical in the 50s, and one a recorded motion picture. Different audiences in different places
In the 50s, musicals were happy, and people didn't die. There was also an interval of 10 to 20 minutes after the fight. Given that the tension would have been disipated by the gap (with drinks and socialising in the lobby), and the need for something to bring people back in to the story/musical and not to upset a 1950s audience too much, as a unexpected and shocking death would have, the placement of these cheerier songs seems eminently sensible to me.
The movie is a single story arc, and a continuous building of the tension and mood is much more sensible, and doesn't need the cheerier songs jarring against that.
It's just horses for courses. -
StrongRex — 15 years ago(August 24, 2010 06:54 AM)
Given that the tension would have been disipated by the gap (with drinks and socialising in the lobby), and the need for something to bring people back in to the story/musical and not to upset a 1950s audience too much, as a unexpected and shocking death would have, the placement of these cheerier songs seems eminently sensible to me.
If they really didn't want to have to do that to their audience, all they would have had to do was end Act One with the scene at Doc's, and move the bridal shop scene to the beginning of Act Two. The story for the stage musical would have been written much better that way because, like you said, it would have been more sensible for the mood and the more cheerful songs wouldn't have ruined that. -
movibuf1962 — 15 years ago(August 20, 2010 10:39 AM)
Great, fresh point of view- I didn't know such rules about not changing the original script were in place for any revival of a stage show- this is an education!! And you brought up one of my favorite changes in the film which I neglected to mention: making "America" a heated, witty, sophisticated song-and-dance debate between the guys AND the girls (instead of just the girls) may have been the best change in the entire film. The last time I saw the movie in a theatre, this number got rollicking applause from the audience at its conclusion.
What a showcase for Moreno and Chakiris!! -
StrongRex — 15 years ago(October 10, 2010 07:23 PM)
Actually, looking back on the movie, I take back what I said about "Gee, Officer Krupke" not being a happy song. When I saw the movie for the first time, and since then, it's made clear that the Jets' intention was to make fun of the authorities and joke around (plus the laughing at the end). So it REALLY has no place after the rumble at all.
Watch that and tell me it's not a happy situation.