The Hustler vs. West Side Story
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Hustler
Tarantinoesque — 18 years ago(December 14, 2007 08:57 PM)
Now, West Side Story is not a bad film, but when The Hustler lost many of its oscar noms to it, I feel a blow was struck to cinema. It was a symbolic passing of the torch from the deep, emotionally driven, and nuance-filled cinema to the gaudy spectacle. Thoughts?
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."-Dr. Strangelove -
vctpagan-1 — 18 years ago(December 20, 2007 09:47 PM)
Sorry guys I have to disagree. "The Hustler' is a great film. But "West Side Story" resonates more with me. I feel bad writing this because I have such a profound love for both films. Without in any way disagreeing with the fine points you two make about "The Hustler", "West Side Story" is not cheap or gaudy. It's a powerful musical with the best dancing, music and songs of any in that genre. The backdrop is as raw as anything in "On the Waterfront" or "The Hustler" for that matter. But here it's revealed via the most beautiful choreography ever on film, and music and lyrics that resonate on a thousand levels. Yes it's dated and today's audience has no patience with people breaking into song and dance amid realistic settings. But the musical is a stylized form not unlike the opera, ballet, kabuki, Chinese opera etc. It has it's own set of esthetic rules which must be appreciated on that level. With "West Side Story" following the rules gives me an ecstatic kind of joy.
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Tarantinoesque — 18 years ago(January 02, 2008 06:46 AM)
What is so powerful about remaking one of the worst Shakespeare stories? It's also impossible to compare the colorful and hackneyed gangs of WWS with the morose mobsters of On the Waterfront. And I would like to hear an explanation of the forementioned "rules" of WWS.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."-Dr. Strangelove -
boxerrebellion — 10 years ago(April 06, 2015 09:38 PM)
For me it's like comparing apples and boomerangs. They are just two different to be able to say which is better. I don't think they have the same purpose - which is why I am able to give a Marvel Avengers movie a star ranking up there with To Kill A Mockingbird - they serve totally different purposes - but serve their own purpose beautifully. Being a musical, WSS stands out because although musicals are often light-hearted, it isn't; even some of the music that appears light-hearted masks deeper issues (Officer Krupke).
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Benedict_Cumberbatch — 17 years ago(May 10, 2008 10:49 PM)
I love musicals, but WSS didn't do much for me when I first saw it recently. Perhaps it didn't age well? I can see why it was impressive in 1961, but I think "The Hustler" is a better film as a whole, and remains still strong.
FYC: Bess O'Brien, for the first female to win Best Director -
scott_uk88 — 15 years ago(August 07, 2010 09:11 PM)
I don't think any harm at all was done to cinema by having West Side Story beat the The Hustler at the Academy awards. For one thing, West Side Story is an immense film in its own right and, thanks to its oscar recognition, many of its great achievements in music, acting, design, choreography, dancing and editing received their deserved due. In that sense - the sense of its boldness of concept and professional excellence - it was actually a great thing for cinema. As for 'nuance-filled' movies being dealt a blow as a result, nothing could be further from the truth. The following decade saw the demise of musical spectaculars and action epics, while countless gritty realist movies like Hud and The Last Picture Show - all of which were very similar in tone, style and sentiment to The Hustler - came to prominence.
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RazzberryBeret — 15 years ago(September 16, 2010 10:14 PM)
It's an apples and oranges situation, which is why probably so many artists feel that awards are irrelevant. Subjective works of art cannot be compared beyond a point. Personally, I would have gone with The Hustler, but West Side Story was a superior musical that struck a chord with massive audiences everywhere. Newman and his films lost out time and time again to such populist choices. Maybe indirectly, this is a tribute to him as a risk-taking actor, who knows.
But I will say this as a fan of Robert Wise - West Side Story and The Sound of Music carry far more resonance than the empty-vessel musicals being rewarded nowadays. I mean, Dreamgirls? The music stunk, the singing (read screeching) jarred, the screenplay was heavy-handed, the acting barring a couple of performances sucked. Most over-rated musical of all time. Even Chicago, however dazzling, was emotionally cold with no repeat value. Zeta-Jones was over-rated and predictably, awarded. Zellweger and the production design made that movie worthwhile. -
mjz688 — 15 years ago(October 24, 2010 09:07 AM)
I think UK Scott pretty much nailed it. Personally, I find WSS almost unwatchable, while The Hustler is one of my favorite films. But the essential point is that WSS represented the apex of musicals' popularity, which, except for isolated examples such as the Sound of Music, soon entered a long, steady decline. The Hustler, meanwhile, highlighted the gritty realism and anti-hero ethos that under-pinned Hollywood's 1970s Golden Age.
"I killed the president of Paraguay with a fork. How've you been?" -
boxerrebellion — 10 years ago(April 06, 2015 09:46 PM)
I agree. Chicago has some great music and the potential for great dance numbers. I've only seen it done by local theatre groups, but except for the sets (can a stage production, especially at that level really compete with Hollywood?) the local group was a better production - the singing and dance numbers were excellent. The Chicago movie was too excited about what they COULD do with the camera rather than a stage that they forgot to ask what they SHOULD do (to paraphrase Jurassic Park's Dr. Malcolm.).
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m-slovak79 — 15 years ago(December 11, 2010 01:20 AM)
The Hustler vs. West Side Story
i have not seen 'West Side Story' but i would bet money ill like The Hustler more
Newman just has a commanding screen presence in The Hustler which makes it a great film. his characters passion is just great to watch, it never gets old watching The Hustler. (and not to mention the 1986 sequel 'The Color of Money')
but then again i think it probably boils down to if your a girl or guy i don't suspect to many guys would actually like a musical type show over something like The Hustler. not saying some guys can't appreciate that stuff, at times, but generally speaking i think musicals are ALMOST exclusively for girls.
p.s. i am a 31 year old guy.My Vote History
http://imdb.to/b5rrNh -
JellyFish19 — 15 years ago(December 29, 2010 02:11 PM)
Just saw "The Hustler" for the first time. It had it's ups and downs, but all in all it was a powerful movie. However with "West Side Story" I felt the real magic of cinema, something only a few movies can make me feel. I'm glad for every Oscar that it won.
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sametic — 14 years ago(May 31, 2011 01:32 PM)
Gone with the Wind was the first to pull off that trick (check out the other 1939 nominees and films).
As a film, The Hustler easily surpasses West Side Story in at least a dozen categories. However, West Side Story is in fact a brilliant film that has since become an irrefutable icon of Americana, so I can't fault the Academy for giving it Best Picture.
Frankly, it's one of the few times the Academy has gotten it right, as films typically win predicated on the politics of the business while more important work either gets buried under more competitive Oscar marketing, suckerpunched by pandering to voters, or completely snubbed for specious reasons.
Regardless of the winning film's merits, time usually clarifies the matter. For recent examples, Forrest Gump beat Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, and Quiz Show in 95, all of which are widely considered superior films. The Departed similarly beat out several superior films in 07, one of which was completely snubbed over conflicting year-of-release and sociopolitical issues, despite arguably being one of the most important films of the new millennium (V for Vendetta). -
boxerrebellion — 10 years ago(April 06, 2015 09:51 PM)
I just recently saw Judgement and Hustler for the first time, but have seen WSS many times since my childhood. Although Judgement and Hustler are both great, after just the one viewing, I have to say I agree with you about Judgement being the better film of the two. I actually prefer Newman in Exodus, BUT I just didn't care for his character in Hustler - it wasn't a good guy/bad guy thing - he just seemed to lack his usual charm.
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LukeLovesFilm28 — 9 years ago(January 02, 2017 01:39 PM)
Are you actually suggesting that GWTW, the most popular film ever produced didn't deserve to win Best Picture in 1939? We're not talking Jezebel here. We're talking about the greatest performance by an actress in film history. We're talking about one of the most elaborate and expensive productions ever. It's almost Oscar bait for all its worth.
Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.