Elsewhere on this board, a small thread has sprouted up about a documentary entitled "78/52," the subject of which isthe

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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Psycho

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ecarle — 9 years ago(February 02, 2017 08:38 PM)

Elsewhere on this board, a small thread has sprouted up about a documentary entitled "78/52," the subject of which isthe Psycho shower scene("78 camera set-ups for 52 seconds of film," said Hitch. Well, one time; I read him say 70 set-ups for 45 seconds of film one other time. And let's not forget that Hitch said the scene took 7 days to film as God made the world?)
Some years ago, a Professor out of Ohio, I think, wrote an entire BOOK solely about the shower scene. I think that was the title of the book, actually, sort of("Alfred Hitchcock and the Shower Scene In Psycho."). It was first priced expensive as a college text, but eventually got mainstream distribution to bookstores at a lower price.
So that's two examples of ONE SCENE generating two works of analysis one on film, one as a book.
And it leads me to wonder. Much as I enjoy Psycho for "the entire organic piece"start to finish, scene for scene, shot for shot, line for line , musical note for musical note..
maybe, ultimately, Psycho IS about a shower scene. Primarily. Only.
And perhaps, given the new documentary, given the book, given the movie "Hitchcock," given the many spoofs and homages of the scene in movies (Phantom of the Paradise, High Anxiety, Dressed to Kill) and given the hundreds of YouTube student film class productions of the scene
is the Psycho shower scene the most famous individual scene in movie history?
I'd be hard-pressed to find its match.
The chariot race in the original Ben-Hur(released less than a year before Psycho) strikes me as one competitorone waits a long time to get that scene and waits a long time after, in a three-hour plus movie.
And for some reason, Gene Kelly's famous song-and-dance in the rain in "Singin' in the Rain" strikes me as another one. One could "open the door" to a host of musical numbers in movies over the years, but Gene's dance in the rain seems to have risen to the top as an expression of love and joy and fearlessness (and, like the shower scene, it is very cinematic.)
Looking towards contemporary film, there are "close but no cigar" situations:
The opening killing of the naked young woman in Jaws is almost a "Psycho shower scene reboot": water, naked woman, knife-like attack from an unseen attacker(who is "semi-seen" in the shower scene.) But I don't think the Jaws opener quite hits all the notes of the shower scene(its not as graphic in blood and violence, for one thing), and one has a feeling it NEEDED the shower scene to come into being. (Plus this: the victim isn't a skilled and famous movie star, its a glorified extra.)
The Godfather has a lot of famous lines, but the many murder scenes are so numerous that its hard to find ONE that matches the shower scene. The horse's head? Sollozo and the Turk over their spaghetti? Luca Brasi strangled with a knife pinning his hand to the bar? Moe Greene through the eye? Sonny at the toll booth?(THAT's probably the closest.) Note that the murders in The Godfather are almost entirely of men. Its Arbogast City.
Anyway, we know that Hitchocck made 53 movies and the AFI has judged four of them among the greatest of all time, and Sight and Sound has named ONE the greatest of all time(not Psycho) and there are many, many great scenes in Hitchcock(berserk carousel, Albert Hall, crop duster, Rushmore, birds attacking everything) but
the shower scene just might be what Hitchcock did the greatest and the best.
The world was shocked, and the shock lingered. For decades.
Any other candidates for the Most Famous Scene in Hollywood history?

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swanstep — 9 years ago(February 02, 2017 11:42 PM)

Any other candidates for the Most Famous Scene in Hollywood history?
A couple of points.

1. For post-1980s things it's a little early to say whether scenes that are as fastidiously assembled and arguably as impactful as the shower scene (e.g., Neo and Trinity rescue Morpheus in The Matrix, The ship splits! then re-elevates then sinks straight down in Titanic, Bullock and Clooney go from orbital harmony to all hell breaking loose with the arrival of a debris field in Gravity, The John Doe chase in Se7en) have truly become famous as such, i.e., in any way independently of the rest of the films they're in.
2. A lot of the most memorable scenes in movies are their beginnings and endings but the feelings was have about those sorts of moments are often indistinguishable from our feeling about the movies taken as wholes. Is the end of Gone With The Wind famous or not? Or is it just GWTW being very famous? Ditto for the beginnings of Star Wars, Sound of Music, West Side Story. I suspect that the end of Casablanca with all its great dialogue does have the kind of fame independent of the surrounding film in way that the (great!) end of Chinatown or the (great!) ending of Sweet Smell of Success or the great endings of The Searchers and Shane do not.
3. If shock-to-original audiences and 'changed movies forever' are weighed heavily then Kane's (John Hurt's) death in Alien and Omaha Beach in Saving Private Ryan have to be up there.
4. Silent era keepers like Chaplin in The Gold Rush nearly going over a cliff and grappling with machinery in Modern Times, Keaton laying track in The General and dodging boulders in Seven Chances, Harold Lloyd going up the outside of a building in Safety Last.

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ecarle — 9 years ago(February 04, 2017 11:01 AM)

A couple of points.

1. For post-1980s things it's a little early to say whether scenes that are as fastidiously assembled and arguably as impactful as the shower scene (e.g., Neo and Trinity rescue Morpheus in The Matrix, The ship splits! then re-elevates then sinks straight down in Titanic, Bullock and Clooney go from orbital harmony to all hell breaking loose with the arrival of a debris field in Gravity, The John Doe chase in Se7en) have truly become famous as such, i.e., in any way independently of the rest of the films they're in.
   Great scenes all..and perhaps demonstrative of the "Psycho phenomenon" in general: so much of what that Psycho did was "the first time," so ithe shower scene GETS to be memorialized forever alone and apart from the many, many, great set-pieces that followed it for 55 plus years. In certain ways, we've had so MANY Psycho shower scenes(in impact) over the years that no one individual scene can rule.
   Hell, when Van Sant's re-do of the shower scene came in 1998it was old hat and 1,100 violent screen deaths had come since the first Psycho.
2. A lot of the most memorable scenes in movies are their beginnings and endings
   Paul Newman and William Goldman (for two) said that the beginings and endings of films were what the movies were all about. You need a good beginning to get the audience interested in the story ahead, and a good ending so they leave the theater satisfied and excited to "tell their friends."
   I would note that Psycho has a great, historic beginning(After a wonderful tracking shot over little-known Phoenix, its into the bedroom with semi-clad Sam and Marion all erotic for 1960) and a great, historic ending(Norman in the cell yes, but ALSO Marion emerging from the swamp.)
   And those are APART from the shower scene
   but the feelings was have about those sorts of moments are often indistinguishable from our feeling about the movies taken as wholes. Is the end of Gone With The Wind famous or not? Or is it just GWTW being very famous? Ditto for the beginnings of Star Wars, Sound of Music, West Side Story. I suspect that the end of Casablanca with all its great dialogue does have the kind of fame independent of the surrounding film in way that the (great!) end of Chinatown or the (great!) ending of Sweet Smell of Success or the great endings of The Searchers and Shane do not.
   Interesting points. I would add that sometimes great lines are as memorable as great scenes. I think AFI tracked the lines, yes? What line came out the best? "Frankly, Scarlett." or "Here's looking at you kid.." Or "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse." Or something else? (Too bad that "Mr. Ruskyou're not wearing your tie" wasn't even considered. Hah.)
3. If shock-to-original audiences and 'changed movies forever' are weighed heavily then Kane's (John Hurt's) death in Alien and Omaha Beach in Saving Private Ryan have to be up there.
   The "Alien" death is as classic as the shower scene, perhaps only "lesser" because so many OTHER shock deaths came before it.
   However, it was "something new and different" and oddly sexual: Hurt "gives birth" after the "crab creature" impregnated him through the mouth.
   (Two notes in passing : John Hurt died last week and obits led with the Alien scene; Hurt GOT that scene because the first actor cast got ill Jon "Frenzy" Finch! Poor Jon Finch!!)
   Omaha Beach in Ryan instantly rendered all other movie battle scenes in general(and the DD Landing in The Longest Day in particular) instantly obsolete and "too tame." It was gory in a very real, very arbitrary way(human bodies become lifeless meat if metal daggers hit them), and its incredible cinematic technique was "something new" that was immediately put into other movies(like Gladiator.)
   I recall thinking that the shooting deaths in "Ryan" were the first advance in such carnage since "The Wild Bunch"(if "advance" is the right word) and that since "Ryan," QT's gunbattle in "Django Unchanged" was the next real change after "Ryan"(men screaming and cussing in pain with every gun wound; blood exploding like huge bags of Hawaiian punch off the shot bodies.)
4. Silent era keepers like Chaplin in The Gold Rush nearly going over a cliff and grappling with machinery in Modern Times, Keaton laying track in The General and dodging boulders in Seven Chances, Harold Lloyd going up the outside of a building in Safety Last.
   Yep. Keaton perhaps was the best of the silent set-piece makersand actors within.