The Shady Lady!
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Sam Cooke
msladysoul — 18 years ago(July 07, 2007 06:07 AM)
What became of the woman Elisa Boyer? Was she involved in the mob? She ended up killing a man herself. Is she out of prison now? For that reason right there the case should have been reopened because that woman had a shady life, involved in two murders and a prostitute. Has any authors ever tried to interview her?
I don't understand the scene of the crime. Why was Sam beaten so bad if he was shot first and down. Why did Bertha beat him so bad or did she beat him? Did she really shoot him? A lot of things don't make sense and if it don't make sense as Judge Judy says it's usually not true.
I think women like her give women who really are raped a hard time proving that they were raped because you got ones crying wolf. Did the jury ask Elisa why she get in the car with a stranger? Did anyone ask as soon as she got to the motel why didn't she ask for help at the desk and call the police then? Did anyone ask why she go to a room with him as if she didn't know he would want sex? I guess no one really knows what happen or want to tell the truth about it, maybe one day. Was Sam murdered in another area then dumped at a cheap motel?
I ain't saying Sam was completely innocent. He should have been aware of groupies who try to frame celebrities. He could have been set up. He let a pretty face get the best of him like so many other stars. It's really sad how all the great black vocalists had untimely deaths, Clyde McPhatter, Sam Cooke, Frankie Lymon, Jackie Wilson, Paul Williams of The Temptations. They were great talents but the music industry is so crooked it ruins people. I can't help but think if they hadn't been singers they still be with us but then we wouldn't know them. Success sometimes kills because of jealousy, recklessness, and excessiveness.
I honestly believed had something like this happen to Sinatra, Elvis, or one of The Beatles, it would have been investigated thoroughly and wouldn't have closed so easy and fast. I'm thinking it's some mob affliation and that's why Elisa and Bertha got off so easy because the mob probably had connections with the police. -
DivingIntheBlue — 18 years ago(July 09, 2007 01:00 AM)
I highly doubt the mob was involved. There are theories that Sam would not give into demands of the mob regarding his part ownership in a record label but, that really is a stretch even for the mob. I also highly doubt a 'party girl' like Elisa was involved with the mob. The whole situation was way too sloppy to be a mob hit. The simplest explanation is usually the right one and I honestly believe Sam was killed because it was a robbery gone wrong.
Hookers used to (and probably still do) pull a job that basically consisted of getting a john (in this case, Sam) to get undressed and then take off with their clothes & money at the first chance. Logically, this is probably what happened because Elisa went along with him willingly (she was not kidnapped as she claimed to the cops) and also "accidentally&1c84quot; took some of his clothes along with all of his money. Sam supposedly had about 3 grand on him that night that was never recovered. Bertha Franklin admitted to beating Sam with a piece of wood after she shot him. Since she said she was acting in self defense, one would believe she was scared and trying to fend Sam off after the attack. I doubt that to be true since I think it was a robbery so, one must assume she was going overboard in her attack. If someone believes the self defense excuse (as the cops obviously did) they'll buy Franklin beating Sam after he was shot.
As far as the cops not doing more investigating, yes, I believe that is true. Perhaps it was racially motivated but, I doubt it. I think it had more to do with that it was hard to prove that both Franklin & Boyer were in cahoots and it was in fact a robbery. Both women passed lie detector tests (which means nothing, actually) and Franklin claimed she was acting in self defense. Looking at the evidence (Sam being half dressed, angry, etc) again, it's hard to prove if the women are lying and it was a setup. After all, this was 1964. There weren't loads of techniques to prove things like they can now and let's face facts, the neighborhood was less than stellar and the cops probably just didn't care. I think that had more to do with the moral aspects of it. If someone knowingly takes a hooker to a cheap motel, in some people's eyes, they get what they deserve. That may have been the thought process of some of the investigators.
Sam wasn't innocent but, he didn't deserve to be robbed and killed for some money. No one does. It was tragic but completely preventable. At the same time, it was a very different era and most groupies weren't known to pull such scams. It's hard to apply the logic & knowledge of today to that crime because people did act differently & didn't always know how seedy & underhanded people could actually be. Groupies weren't as overt as they are now and stars weren't used to blackmailing schemes, etc from those types of women. It happened but, it wasn't the norm.
It's also hard to fathom something like this happening to Frank Sinatra or Elvis Presley. For one, they both had entourages that protected them. Seemingly, Sam had none and he chose to go to a pretty seedy motel with a woman he just met. I doubt Sinatra or Presley would've done that. If you're alluding to the fact that cops would bend over backwards to solve a white celeb's murder ASAP, think again. Try Googling Thelma Todd, Bobby Fuller (EXCELLENT example of cops not looking at evidence or facts) or George Reeves. All three died under mysterious circumstances and the cops did nothing to try to solve those crimes. All three are still debated today so, it's not always a race thing.
I think your comment on how a lot of black vocalists were taken before their time is very one sided & unfair. There are lots of talented people of all colors who had early demises. To focus on race all the time just keeps racism alive & well and that seriously needs to stop. It's a small part of who we are yet, some people just can't seem to get past it and let it go. It's a skin color, nothing more. It's also short sided to blame the music industry for their deaths. Fame & success is a magnifier. Meaning, if you're a troubled person who makes bad choices to begin with, fame, money & success is only going to magnify that part of you if you allow it. It's ultimately up to the person to change. There are plenty of black vocalists who didn't give into the so called trappings of fame & money. For every Frankie Lymon, there's a Louis Armstrong and Ray Charles.
I have no idea what happened to the women involved that fateful night. I do know that the motel that Sam was killed at is long gone. Considering this happened 43 years ago, I'd say both women are either dead or elderly. I also firmly believe that nobody 'gets away' with anything. Justice might not be swift enough for some of us but, I think life has a way of making people who do wrong pay for it in the end. Karma is a funny thing.
"Stars don't shine in singular places" -
scooke-6 — 18 years ago(July 10, 2007 06:14 AM)
It is often assumed that because I'm family, I would try to sugarcoat what happened in Sam's final hours. Really there's no need to, because there is so much evidence that was not brought to light, one questions how the "official version" of Sam's death was ever considered plausible. In "Our Uncle Sam" (www.ourunclesam.com) I present the facts, coincidences (including the mysterious similarity to Bobby Fuller's death, down to common people and places involved), rumors, and an undisclosed source to piece together what may have happened.
I also reference an article a forensic pathologist wrote which questioned the large lump on Sam's head. Bertha Franklin claims she hit Sam in the head with a "flimsy stick" (I've heard it described as a broomstick), once Sam kept coming after her after she shot supposedly him. In this pathologist's estimation, more evidence points toward the fact that Sam was hit on the head (more than likely with a solid object) first, and then shot. His argument was that if Sam was already bleeding internally, there wouldn't have been a sufficient enou5b4gh amount of blood to make the lump swell. The autopsy physician assigned to the case even admitted the lump "bulged perceptibly" and "possibly could've rendered him unconscious." My source's claim supports the pathologist's theory that Sam was hit over the head with a blunt object before he was shot.
My source also says that Sam was not brought to the Hacienda under his own accord, but was driven there in his car after being drugged while dining earlier in the evening. The rest of what happened is rather compelling, and makes a lot more sense than the "official" version.
There's also a picture of Bertha Franklin shortly after Sam's shooting in "Our Uncle Sam" that is rather rare. For a person who was supposedly involved in a "tussle" with Sam, she doesn't look the worse for wear. Sam, on the other hand, had two broken hands, a broken rib, the previously-mentioned lump on the back of his head, and one on his forehead. I'm not making theses things up; this was all in the autopsy report other biographers neglected to dissect. Whomever Sam fought in the last hours of his life, it wasn't this middle-aged, scar-free lady.
I believe Sam Cooke did not go to the Hacienda Motel under his own accord, and I believe he died fighting to the very end. This is important because in the big picture, he didn't die under mysterious circumstances in a seedy motel, but rather on thb68e opposite end of the spectrum as someone who fought to hold on to what he had built.
I'm not saying that Sam was an angel (how many of us actually are?), but he didn't deserve to have his name, memory, and legacy tarnished by such a fabrication as the one told to date. There's much more to the story, and it's all in "Our Uncle Sam."
Erik Greene, author, and Sam Cooke's great-nephew -
bond007clone — 18 years ago(July 10, 2007 02:06 PM)
This is all from memory, I'm not sure if any of it is correct.
Daniel Wolff tried to track down Elisa Boyer and even hired a private detective to find her - he wasn't successful. I hear that Peter Guralnick, during the writing of "Dream Boogie", somehow figured out that Elisa Boyer was still in the California prison system because of the 1979 manslaughter of her boyfriend.
As for Bertha Franklin, she died in the late 1980s (not eighteen months later, as some sources claim) in Michigan, if memory servb68es.
As for Evelyn Carr (the owner of the Hacienda Motel), I've heard very little about her. -
DivingIntheBlue — 18 years ago(July 11, 2007 01:14 AM)
scooke-6,
First of all, I'd like to apologize if I offended you. By no means did I mean to tarnish the image of Sam. I have far too much respect for him (as a human being and a talented musician) to do that so, if I came off like that, I sincerely apologize.
As I stated in my previous post, I don't buy the official story. Never have, never will. Ordinarily, I'm not conspiracy theory girl but, there are quite a few murders (Sam's, Bobby Fuller, etc) that are so obviously swept under the rug that one can't help but think there's a cover up or a more sinister reason behind it. I've never read some of the poi2000nts you presented so, I drew my own conclusion based on the information I read. Sam did not bring about these events because he was a bad person. I would never elude to that because I didn't know him to even make that assumption and one event does not define a life. The circumstances of his death weren't his fault. In my opinion, he simply didn't have the protection that a star of his stature deserved and needed. Obviously, I don't know the true motives of this crime but, there's never a valid excuse to harm someone else for money, revenge or whatever the people involved thought he deserved. If he was in fact drugged, he had no control over the situation and that wasn't a bad choice on his part. He simply encountered some shady people. Again, not his fault.
Thanks for the link to your site. I'm off the check it out now and I will be checking out your book. It's beyond cool that you're related to Sam. Even if this case is never reopened or officially solved with the correct version of events, I think Sam would be proud that his family hasn't allowed this injustice to fade away. His legacy is so much greater than his untimely death. As infamous as it is, that has nothing to do with his talent or the type of person he was. The fans know that. Over 40 years later, people still want to know the truth and want justice for Sam. Keep on getting the truth out there.
"Stars don't shine in singular places" -
scooke-6 — 18 years ago(July 11, 2007 05:58 AM)
I was never offended, Blue. It's not your fault that all that's ever been provided to the public is the same regurgitated dribble. In my book I say that many of the "facts" of the case "prove to be illogical detours to solving a mystery built on irrational premises."
I just feel it's important to let people know that there was so much more that was either ignored or never investigated, so please don't confuse my passion with me taking offense to your comments. It's the ones that would rather argue the "official" story than open their minds and listen to logic I don't waste my time with. It's a pleasure to meet fans who respect my uncle's legacy like yourself. -
msladysoul — 18 years ago(July 21, 2007 04:14 PM)
Maybe it was a different time era, but people even then knew there were gold-diggers, singers knew that, but they still associated with such women or thought they were too smart to be played. Back then they even knew most women chasing them were star-struck, groupies, or gold-diggers. Also, I said if something like what happen to Cooke happen to happen to Elvis or Sinatra, it would have been investigated more, "if" is the magic word. I'm pretty sure Elvis didn't have security around him 24/7, I'm sure if he didn't want him around he would dismiss them, so a girl COULD HAVE tripped him up. There was security around him because it was known what kind of people and women would be after him. I'm not the only one who said had something like what happen to Sam happen to Elvis it would have bee investigated thoroughly. I read in a book once from someone who knew Sam said that exact thing. Many black performers didn't have an entourage or security surrounding them, like white performers did. I wonder why?
I don't have to google Thelma. I know her and enjoy her. The reason why Thelma Todd and other Hollywood deaths were ignored or sweeped under the rug was because important people in Hollywood were involved with her dying, and because of their power they were able to get away with it or pay the cops off. You can get away with lots of wrong when you got money and power. Your not in my race or color so you don't know what I know, the crimes involving blacks aren't treated the same as ones associated with whites. Color and race will always be prevalent when there's no equality or fairness. I'll know race and color don't matter when I'm not judged walking in a store or riding down the street. I guess your one of those color-blind people, well I'm not, I want to see color and race it's beautiful. Color and race is important if used in a positive way. We should want to appreciate and le238arn from others, instead of ignoring and acting like were all the same, were not, our differences is what makes the world a versatile, colorful, beautiful place. Because of people who like to ignore and act like were all the same and there's no such thing as racism and colorism are the reason why racism and colorism still exist.
The reason I said it's sad we lost some many black singers early is because their important to ME and my upbringing, my culture, so of course it's more of my lost to me. The other singers aren't important to me. If most of the b5b4lack singers didn't die young from drugs, alcohol, women, or just being with a bad crowd, many still had a helluva live with drugs, alcohol, women, and a bad crowd. I can count on my hand the black singers who lived a decent life and it's not many. I'm being specific because black entertainers are my speciality, not to say there weren't any troubled performers of other races. I just also believe with fame and fortune comes demons, temptations, and bad judgements. Half of the performers wouldn't have did most of the things they did had they not been in show biz and become famous. Most of all entertainers of any era had a tragic life or had tragedies, you find very few who escaped untarnished. People love to read about tragic stars lives though. The ones who had a tragic life are more remembered then ones who didn't have a tragic life.
So some believe what happen to Sam was a robbery gone wrong? Maybe! Did Sam know she was a prostitute or just thought she was a random girl he met one night? I find it odd how Bertha beat the man so bad, what she did was uncalled for and unnecessary. I could understand if she had shot him once or maybe hit him over the head to make him unconscious until police came, if he was threatening, but she killed him up and for what? Mysteries and Scandals did a show on Sam Cooke, and a woman interviewed on there said Bertha and Elisa was working together. I honestly don't believe he would have paid a woman 5b4for sex when there were many, many women who would have loved to been with him for free. In Etta James book, Etta said Sam and the mysterious woman were together weeks before his death.