I dont know about anybody else, but in saw 2 when he is diagnosed with cancer, I felt really bad for him, just the look
-
alucard1348 — 17 years ago(October 25, 2008 11:23 PM)
I agree that he is a victim. John was a good person. Then he had to go through the traumatic experience of losing his unborn child. His life begin to fall apart. And one day he just snapped. It's like he developed a mental illness. And people with extreme mental illnesses can't really be held accountable for their actions. And to be honest, I think some people in REAL LIFE deserve to be put through jigsaw's tests. To be honest, I could make a list of people who I would love to play jigsaw's games with. The problem I would have if I had the chance to do those things to those people, is I'd probably turn out the same as Amanda. Because those specific people deserve a very painful death. That's my opinion! Examples of the kind of people that I feel deserve to die:
- Rapist
- Child rapist/molesters/killers
- Kid nappers.
Someone close to me grew up being molested and raped A LOT, and no one believed her, including her parents. Those people are the people I were referring too, including her parents. But who knows, maybe I'm just a raging psychopathic lunatic too.
-
masu_trinity — 17 years ago(October 27, 2008 11:05 PM)
No but honestly. Who really have the right to say how someone else should live their life? -_-
Stupid noob Jigsaw. He is just pissed cause things did not go as he wanted it to and now he is emo at the world and kills people and trys to justify it with a lame excuse. -
Al_X — 17 years ago(October 29, 2008 11:45 AM)
People are deemed evil primarily because of their actions, not their motives. Every "criminal" in the history of crime had some condoning motive that made them say to themselves "I'm special, my situation is special, the usual everyday moral doesn't apply to me". Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment" is a classic literary study of this subject.
C'mon people, just because someone had a sad and tragic personal history, it doesn't in any way take away from the moral wrongness of their actions. Whether we call such a person evil is beside the point - I personally think it's fruitless and even harmful - their actions are evil and shou16d0ld without hesitation be condemned.
Call it, ethics 101.
MY VOTES:
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=15485427 -
historically_inaccurate — 17 years ago(October 31, 2008 11:52 PM)
This thread is so funny especially those people who are defending Jigsaw. I just can't believe that people would defend because IN REALITY, if this happened, we would all point our fingers at him for killing all these people. That is way there is something called the JUSTICE SYSTEM aka the LAW. You don't teach people a lesson by putting them in situation like traps or what not but you have to put them in trial. I do admire his intentions but the way he does things are EVIL and demented. In some degree, I think I would consider him as a vigilante but he is all in all a dying man who has nothing else better to do or just a totally old emo person who would rather cause some bad than good.
-
AlexMorgan13 — 17 years ago(November 02, 2008 05:36 PM)
he gives them all a choice and chance they get hurt but could still live
i mean look at Amanda, and Detective Hoffman, they survived and a couple others
others could have survived if they listened and followed the rules
his way is better than the justice system in alot of ways since his way scares people straight or they die -
Al_X — 17 years ago(November 13, 2008 05:10 AM)
Please, stop it. Apologizing for the actions of a twisted and violent SERIAL KILLER. It makes you look very bad. Face to face, no one could retain any sense in this over-the-top-silly "they're all bad people so they deserve to be tortured" -line. Well, I suppose this is what happens when you read too much into the Old Testament. Vengeful God is a pretense for holding on to your old childish omnipotent black-and-white morals.
Secondly, this Jigsaw claims he's trying to change OTHER people's lives'. He's not saying he's doing it in order to revenge something. So he's in fact admitting that the lives' belong to the persons themselves. So what right has he in forcing these people to change? Well, unless he believes to be God, I can't see any such right. And just because you THINK you're God, doesn't really make it so, now does it? Or maybe these apologists believe him to be an instrument of the Old Testament's vengeful and jealous God. If this is your God, I'm glad he's not mine.
MY VOTES:
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=15485427 -
cathyvh06 — 17 years ago(November 27, 2008 02:08 AM)
I don't think he was "evil" per se, just extremelly deluded. He seriously thought that what he was doing would help the people to "appreciate their lives". He was a very intelligent man, and as we saw in the previous movies, a very loving husband. He experienced a great number of events previous to his life as Jigsaw that which one, made him angry at the world, and two, angry at those who wasted their lives.
The mix of his intelligence for not just architecture but most importantly, the human mind and his obvious psychotic delusions made him a very interesting villian. Although never really "murdering" anybody, his insight to the human mind made his "tests" or "games" extremelly hard to win, especially ones with time limits. Personally I found it amazing that it took people that long to sacrifice something, such as their arms or their eyes, due to their fear of pain or loss to make one handicapped, despite the threat to their life. It was these basic human fears, in which he preyed on, that made timing become their ultimate death. I think really he is one of the most interesting horror or crime VILLIANS (that's right villians) in movie history.
I tried my hardest to avoid any spoilers. So sorry if I have -
gravid-mis — 17 years ago(March 06, 2009 02:58 PM)
He became Jigsaw cos Cecil kinda killed Gideon.
Yes, that was a tragedy. He tried to teach Cecil something, but he died.
I still think of him as evil though. Loosing a child doesn't give you the right to put so called innocent people in traps.
But that is just my opinion. -
koffeenkreame41-1 — 13 years ago(May 27, 2012 04:14 AM)
^^Completely agree. Amanda & Hoffman seemed to get off on the power they felt doing the tests on the victims, especially Hoffman. They rigged the traps where the victims had absolutely NO way of escaping. Put your finger in the jar of acid and grab the key? Try and save your cop friend, but don't come through the main door!, etc.
"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna*beep*wit' me!" Hudson in Aliens. -
DragoonKain — 13 years ago(December 09, 2012 01:26 AM)
The Saw movies, aside from maybe the first one, are written in such a way that you sympathize with Jigsaw and feel nothing but contempt for the victims (with some exceptions). There's a reason most of the characters are despicable human beings. None of them deserved the ordeal they went through, but the reason this is considered torture porn rather than horror is because the audience actually wants to see the victims get hurt. In a way, it can be quite revealing of the audience's own sadistic nature, which makes it scary in a different kind of way.
The writers wanted the audience to enjoy seeing them suffer through the traps. They wanted you to identify with Jigsaw. I'm not sure they were entirely successful. Most of the time I found myself laughing at their misfortune as they stupidly stumbled into every trap they laid out for them. Jigsaw never laughed at the victims in the trap. He honestly wanted to reform them, and help them. He really didn't accomplish what he wanted to do, but his heart was in the right place. -
AndyEN — 13 years ago(March 31, 2013 11:35 PM)
In terms of the "tragic figure" or "evil" debate, I don't think it needs to be either/or. Take for example The Tragedy of Macbeth. Macbeth is a tragic figure and also the main villain.
I think the same thing applies to Jigsaw. He may not be a tragic figure in terms of causing his own death - that was going to be the case regardless - but in his attempts to make the world a better place he provided the means for his own downfall in the moral sense. He perceived himself to be the hero when he was really the villain, and his evil continued well past his death. In some ways in his attempt to leave the world a better place he made it just a little bit worse. -
flora_mcguire — 12 years ago(October 07, 2013 08:19 AM)
Jesus CHRIST on a stick. All you people preaching Jigsaw made people's lives BETTER need to get their heads checked PRONTO.
SAW : Lawrence Gordon escaped. AFTER loosing a foot. He was not only traumatized, but (spoiler alert) became an accomplice.
SAW II: officer's kid? I would say he became more susceptible to nightmares instead of being a happy little fudge for the rest of his life. And WHAT? Amanda is a survivor/accomplice too!
Who did survive? Strahm? He was eventually killed and framed for his crimes by Hoffman.
SAW 3D THE FINAL CHAPTER: The only guy being a happy little poof after being through Jigsaw traps turns out to be a huge bummer. But he starts S.U.R.V.I.V.E for other victims. And all of us watched their reactions.
Those who survived did get rehabilitated. Not for love of their lives; but for soul crushing fear that if they slipped once againthey might not be so lucky.
I do believe John's cancer had effects on his personality and made him impervious to others' pain. His was a morally superior position.
But the way he went on about "rehabilitating" people (and killing those connected to said people) isn't something I would want any sane human to agree with. Punish a subject for being 'evil' I could relate to, but putting the lives of those connected to him (even when they are innocent) is downright insane. -
demonic_hater — 12 years ago(January 18, 2014 02:23 PM)
In Around the world in 80 days, he shows up near the very end where the main villain goes on a rant telling everyone that no one can stop him then after he says "you?" For the 3rd time then you'll see Tobin in a top hat and a mustache displaying a surprised look in his face. Keep an eye out and try not to blink. By the way he's not credited.